The end of the golden road. |
June, 28, 2003 1:29 PM |
tippingj |
Well. If you guys haven't seen it, you will soon. This is the end for Oldworld machines. Apple has moved onto the new G5 64Bit machines. Soon applications will follow, and 10.4 will most likely be 64 Bit only. And I don't think that XPostFacto will allow 64Bit applications to run on old 32bit machines. I'd suggest that you all follow the new golden path laid before us by Apple. Sell your oldworld machines, get a few hundy dolloars, and put in the order for a new G5 Powermac. I did. So this is it. I'm deleting this forum from my bookmarks, partially for the reason of OWC's forum engineers not being able to hear our frantic screams for help and pain when we cannot search this forum for whatever topic may be needed. How can you get support if your support is on the 91st page of this forum? I betcha by the time anyone reads this, it will be on the second or third page of this forum. The other reason is this, Oldworld was never meant to support OS X. I think that XPF would be doing us a FAVOR to stop right here, dead and now, to force the rest of you to buy a decent new Powermac, rather then lugging on the slow, long, and horrid journey of a 60mhz FSB'd Mac trying to run Panther. So I sold my Mac. I can no longer deal with the fact that I have paid quite a bit of money toward my Oldworld, it runs OS 9.1 just fine, but not OS X. I WANT to run OS X. It is the future, but the future does not hold any free space for Oldworld. And I can no longer deal with this forum. My $10 enabled me to do some wonderful things that I could have never done any other way, and I am thankful for that (I view the $10 as going towards XPF itself, NOT this forum), but it is time to move on. I'm betting that most of you are thinking "No no. It cannot be, Sonnet or Powerlogix will come out with a 64 bit 2ghz processor that will run on my 60mhz FSB Mac!". Well you can see the crazyness of that. 1ghz FSB or 45-60mhz FSB. You can do the math. I'd say Shame on you Sonnet/Powerlogix for EVER trying anything like that- not only would it be expensive, and a very large heavy processor card, but the preformance would be the same as a 32Bit chip, and I doubt even then its even possible because the entire motherboard in a G5 revolves around the 64Bit CPU. So this is the end. Apple has finally sealed up the Oldworld machine in its 4 inch thick titanium-coated coffin with the Apple logo in the center of the door. In 2 years, expect everything to be 64Bit, even in the PC world. 486's, Pentiums, PowerMac G3 and G4's, AMD K6's, and Xenons will all be doorstops as the world moves onto bigger and better technology. Fortunatly, my Powermac doorstop earned me some cash. I'd suggest that you sell your Powermac for some dough before it is too late. Granted someone will want it, but if you are a true, loyal, mac user, you will get a new Powermac, support Apple and run OS X the way it was meant to be run. Anyone else trailing behind in the world of Pre-64bit will be sealed up, no more applications will be made, no more patches and bug fixes will be issued for these machines. Maybe 32bit systems will become Opensource, but even then, expect to join the ranks of things like OS/2, Amiga, BeOS, etc. No more development except by those individuals who won't let the truth set in. Oldworld is DEAD. KO'd. D E A D. Thats all there is to it. I wouldn't even expect any more problems to be fixed in this forum as it dies and withers away, Oldworld is now nonexistant. Oldworld is now as useful as a 486, all existing software works, but no more apps will ever be created. Soo. Thanks XPF for the year(s) you have given my Mac back. I feel my $10 went to a great application, I'd spend it again in the future when G5 is oldworld and G8 or G9 is Newworld. I've been spending my last day burying the window that I used to look through for Oldworld. Now I'm lookin' into the window of the NewWorld. And boy, it looks good. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 23, 2003 3:49 PM |
kbata |
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I think that it would have been wise for the original poster to have done some research before entering his rant. Panther will work on pre G5 Macs and I'm sure that Ryan will find a way to make it work on old world Macs by the time it ships. Word is that Panther runs faster on older Macs than any other version of OS X to date. For the poster that said that his 8500 has been slowing with each release I think it sounds like some work needs to be done on his system. A cache cleaner may help. Even though I now have moved to an upgraded B&W I still use my 7500 all the time. Hopefully the Panther upgrade will go smoothly and we can continue to get use out of our older Macs. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 23, 2003 1:45 PM |
jseibyl |
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I dont know about the rest of you, but I enjoy tinkering, making things work that shouldn't, and having Jaguar on a ~8 year old 9500 with a g4 800. Yes I use my MAC for all sorts of stuff. It is my tinker toy that I actually use, and since it is now running the latest X native apps (photoshp, Director MX, etc) it will be usefull proffesionally for a few more years. Of course I want a g5, but for under 500, I have been given a few good years to get acclimated to X, without the feeling that I shelled out a fortune. Besides if you are here, you understand part of the fun of this upgrading is the process, and if in two or three years, the machine is "obsolete" so what?? "obsolete" according to who?? I have a mac IIcx, that is still running great, and I like to use it on occasion for old games that WON't run in X or 9. (Reach for the Stars IE) Upgrades seem to go both ways. Bottom line...does the machine do what you want it to?? |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 21, 2003 9:31 PM |
mitch707 |
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The entire value of my involvment with 'old world' machines and OSX is in what I've learned about how these machines work, how to build them, how to make them do what I want them to do. I view this as a process without end. The horizon moves as I move. Wouldn't it be a trip to go to a retail outlet like Fry's and pick up a G5 motherboard, maybe a boxed processor, couple sticks of DDR RAM, couple-o-fans and a cheap barebones case. Take it home and build an awsome machine! Beats the hell out of trying to come up with three grand. I can't even find PowerMacs in the thrift shops any more! God! I'm beginning to think that the best option would be to LEASE a G5. But hey, I a gamer. All the good stuff takes forever to get ported to Mac and then even that costs twice the PC price. I'm patient, I'll wait, see what happens next....... bide my time.......check out this forum m |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 20, 2003 4:29 AM |
tomobiki |
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Haven't been here in a couple months, since OS X is running wonderfully now. I have finally gotten around to doing EverQuest. I'm building a Digital Audio G4 in an ATX case and sticking in a 800MHz or 1GHz G4 upgrade(not sure which speed yet) really just to play it. Silly maybe, but oh well. I will still kep my oldworld PTP 250 around for when I set the new G4 to crunch stuff like 3D renderings. The G4 is also just an interim solution for me, until I have enough money for G5. By then the second generation should be out, and the G4 will help with RC5 and extra power for rendering and whatever else I need. My little Mac Plus remains so I can play those old games and just fiddle around with a compact mac..nostalgic stuff. My oldworld systems will probably find duty as web server/backup system. Oldworld is not dead, but after Panther, when 10.4 comes, I'm not sure it will be worth upgrading oldworld machines past that point, in hardware at least. Once you hit 1GHz you've reached the point where there's plenty of processor power to spare, so memory and the PCI bus become the bottlenecks. The PCI might not even be so bad if they released a 64MB or 128MB PCI video card. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 11, 2003 12:03 AM |
terrancew_hod |
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Interesting thread. I agree that things aren't as dire for G3 and G4 users, but I think Panther will definitely draw a line between what is or is not usable. I used my PM 8500 for several months and it seemed with every update the graphics kept getting choppier and slower. I looked at my options for using Jaguar as Xpostfacto and this forum served as a springboard to get more into OS X. I ended up building a 1GHz machine using the kit from the short-lived Core Computers and have been quite happy with it. With all of the upcoming graphical features (Fast user switching, window management, etc) I didn't feel the Old World Macs will cut the mustard and give me a great user experience. But glad that this software was available, otherwise I don't think I would have gotten involved with this operating system as I am now. XPostfacto still makes my 8500 useful; I will use it as a file/web server to play with. Even if Xpostfacto is successful in installing Panther, I just don't think that the user experience will be all that great. The Old World macs have had a great long run; you would never see this type of longitevity in the PC world. Eventually Apple had to make some models obsolete in order to more their OS to the next level. I've experienced this in the PC world, although you could still install the product, it just wouldn't run as well. Terrance |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 01, 2003 12:54 PM |
rsgleason2000 |
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I don't think Apple would be dumb enough to slice their own throats and suddenly leave people with G3 & G4's hanging. At least not right away. And you gotta remember, all those with the new G5 65 bit machines, your computers are already out dated by the G6 128 bit machines that are already on the drawning boards. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
July, 01, 2003 7:17 AM |
jmccown |
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Interesting points raised. I think it depends on how the "new DNA" of unix architecture and culture mixes with the "need to sell hardware" situation at Apple. Sun Microsystems has had a similar situation where they make their "real money" selling "big iron" hardware, but they make an OS that is (SCO whinging not withstanding) unix, with all of the cultural continuity issues that entails. The 32/64 bit architecture issue there (Sun) has been much more of a morphing experience than a sudden snap. I'd say that Sun handled it pretty well all in all, for a long time you could run "current" OS on 32-bit systems which were glacially (motivationally) slow... to the extent that any sane person with 'real work' to do would buy an Ultra. By this time nobody would *want* to run Solaris 9 on a Sparc Classic (not even me). As a "coach class" Mac user (and a marginal one at that) it would seem reasonable for Apple to follow the Sun model and allowed for trailing-edge users in its world. While animation and video types will need every mip available, at the other end of the continuum, keeping something for students and grandmas doing email and ebay is cheap market-share. However.... my collection of variously obsolete macs at home speaks somewhat of Apple's historical tendencies toward intentional obsolescence. Guess we'll see how the two cultures interact. As a technological bottom feeder, maybe it would be a good thing for Apple to go 64 bit only... I'd have some really cool G4s available to run Linux/BSD on-- cheap. Fun thread... not that bashing it around is apt to change anything though ;-) - Jon |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
June, 30, 2003 4:22 PM |
marcush |
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I agree with the opinions here that it will be some time before there is no longer any 32-bit code in OSX. Afterall the transition from the old 68k Motorolla processors to the G3 took years before the old Mac OS was written in pure PPC code. The same will be true in this case. There are a lot of G4 Machines out there and it would make no sense business wise to render them inoperable within the next 5 years, which is a typical Mac lifespan. Therefore, though I may have upgraded to a G5 machine sometime next year this is not the end of the road for my Power Tower Pro. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
June, 30, 2003 11:48 AM |
rpertierra |
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I'm going to wait a little longer for a G5 with Panther installed (one less thing to buy). By then (probably early next year) I'll be able to buy more computer for the same money and some of the "dust" will have settled. What am I going to sell my 7300 for, $50?! |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
June, 29, 2003 1:36 AM |
gabb |
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Well folks, OS X was announced many years (4?) ago and it finally showed up in March, 2001, and how crappy was it? EXTREMELY!!!! It took almost a year and a half (when Jaguar came out in Fall'2002) for it to be anything really good. Its great but we still have many issues, specially with printers and scanners. Knowing this history I think it will be probably another year till we will see a G5 machines working in perfect harmony with 64 bit Panther. and what about the softwares...that will probably take another year and a half. My roadmap goes this way: I have spent a lot on my PTP so far (Sonnet G4 800 Mhz, 800 MbRam, ATi Radeon, ADAPTEC 29160 SCSI etc. etc.) and only way i will make any money on this is if i sell it in pieces. So far it works fast enough for my needs (Photoshop, Final Cut pro etc.). I just purchased a G4 (400Mhz) Ti Book frm Ebay for $800 and I hope this powerbook will be the bridge frm old world to new world. what will i do with the PTP next year when I buy the new G5 3 Ghz machine, well it will be my trusted server. Until then I will be glued to this forum and learning new ways and tricks to keep it going. Gabby |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
June, 28, 2003 6:50 PM |
powderhaus |
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if apple keeps updating the system like they have been 10.4 will still have to be 32mit compatable and it also seems like they don't have to do much more optimizing, just compile it twice. Apple could not dump the 32bit computers that fast, the G5 JUST came out, and if all of the sudden nothing else was supported by apple and you just bought a G4 2 years ago would you spend the $3000 again???? that would not be smart by apple, they are going to have to continue to support 32bit and let the migration to 64bit happen naturaly. It is sad you think that way and i don't think you thought your reasoning through, you may just need an excuse for a new computer and are trying to find a way to need it and fool yourself. Truthfully i will probably get one of those G5s when i get the money, which could be next year, but i will not stop using this old J700 as long as it can use a modern operating system. it was my first computer and when i got it I was overjoyed but then with in 2 months apple broke my hart and it took me a few years to upgrade and find XPF and i am very happy with it, i get to keep my computer and save $3000, and by your logic i have saved it twice, once for the G4 i would have had to buy and once for the G5 that you say i would have to buy now because 32bit apps are dead. this J700 will always do some thing for me. |
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RE: The end of the golden road. |
June, 28, 2003 2:08 PM |
OSXGuru |
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Now, let me start by saying that tippingj is right about at least one thing. The new G5 machines look impressive by any standard. But things aren't quite as dire as he predicts. I think it is unlikely that many apps will become "64 bit only" in the foreseeable future. That would limit their market to G5 machines only, and there are a lot of G3 and G4 machines out there (new world and old world). It is true that it seems unlikely that there will be G5 upgrades for the Old World machines, for a variety of reasons. As for the comments about the forum software, I guess I understand the frustration. |
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