Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 01, 2003 7:36 AM |
macintosh |
I can get to the OS X installer, but the keyboard & mouse is frozen. Only one time have I had keyboard & mouse working at the 'Select Language' screen, but that installation broke when X started again and wanted the user information etc : the screnn suddenly went blank at the first form before I had any chance to do anything. System information : PowerBook G3 Kanga ; 160MB RAM ; 30GB HD Ethernet-*ONLY* network port Mac OS X 10.1.3 2Z691-3550-A HD has been partitioned as follows: (partition name : size) X : 7.5GB ; 9.1.1 : 1 GB ; 9.2.2 : 1GB ; swap : 4GB ; x-prog : 4GB ; brugere : 10.25GB XPostFacto 2.2.5 - Verbose Mode - Throttle 1 - Debug : Support old GDB Yours in happy hacking - Bjarne How have the rest of you Kanga G3 owners gotten it to work ??? |
. |
macintosh, firmware... |
August, 07, 2003 12:51 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
Don't get confused. The firmware under discussion is not the main firmware in the sytem hardware. The firmware under discussion is the firmware in the actual ethernet/modem card itself. It's a smart automated peripheral and its' firmware has it's revision embedded. If OSX installer can't see what it wants, it kicks a fit. Ergo, some of your difficulties. Glad to hear you can work inside these things, few can. My main problem with legacy hardware is that the 3400 is way too sluggish on OSX.1.5; and my Kanga had serious power management problems that refused to fix at reasonable cost, so I gave away the 3400, and retired the Kanga for spare parts. I put the 5-gig HD (perfect) into a 5300ce; which worked great. I'm thinking about installing YellowDog Linux in the 5300ce, if it works it will be the only nubus based computer they support; but it is in their support list, and all hardware is listed working in it . OSX memory requirements are a bit obscure, so here goes: OSX.1.x- Must have 96megs to install, but will run in 64megs. This because the OSX installer does not get use of the virtual driver, and so needs much more ram. Sluggish as heck tho, with that little ram. OSX.2.x-Must have 128megs to load. While I haven't tried it, system should run in 96megs, based on my observation of ram used in the taskmap on average programs. OSX.2.x is significantly spiffier in operation. X.2.6 (latest) is the best overall, I've had no problems with overall getting work done with it in a Kanga. Using it with a external modem, Safari is quite spritely. All versions of OSX want as much memory as it can get until you reach about 512mb, then it seems to get minimal traffic in the virtual driver from there on. Makes sure you have sufficient drive space to support the virtual driver. Should not be a problem with your systems, since all seem to have large drives installed. SInce both these legacy systems are PCI and IDE HD types, adhere tightly to the 8-gigs or less rule for a boot partition and OSX must be the first operational partition. Makes sure the drives are either unpegged or mapped as drive-0 in the IDE pegging. These systems map the CDROM as drive-0 of ATA port-1, And the HD must be mapped as drive-0 of its port-0. OSX checks this stuff and kicks a horrible fit it doesn't get things to work its way. Good Luck! |
. |
pbell3 |
August, 05, 2003 4:45 AM |
macintosh |
. |
Copying a X-system: That means, that a work-around to the ethernet-issue could be to install X on a spare partition on the TiBook or the iMac and then do a bootable copy to the 3400 (max 10.1.5) and the Kanga (max10.2.6); then insert an original X-CD in the CD-drive and use XPostFacto to re-install the necessary modifications? I'll try that too; unfortunately, I've just had to deliver my TiBook for repairs as the DVD had gone bust and the FireWire port had been burned. Fortunately, it's still under warranty :-) I'm a little loath to using the iMac for this as it's my final production machine while the TiBook is the experimental machine with all the funny stuff installed. So I might have to wait for the TiBook to get back from repairs. |
. |
coolcat |
August, 05, 2003 3:58 AM |
macintosh |
. |
How much memory have you got in the Kanga ? There's a minimum requirement - not sure whether it's 48 or 64MB - but he 32MB on the motherboard seems to be definitely too litte. With my full 160MB I get to the select language screen. With only the 32MB on the motherboard I only get a nice gray screen without even the Apple logo. At the time of the 3400/Kanga heydays, the addtional memory cards you could buy came in the following sizes: 16MB, 32MB, 64MB, 128MB. Also, try setting XPostFacto the way I've done. Then, if you've got the ethernet-only Kanga, during the boot process you'll get 14 lines staritng with 'DEC21x4:', the last two of which are : 'Error while parsing SROM' and 'Device initialization failed' |
. |
pbell3 |
August, 05, 2003 3:32 AM |
macintosh |
. |
I've no compunction about operating inside my macs. In fact I've had both my PB520c, my 3400 and my Kanga completely dismantled several times. In fact, I've got and old PB520c that's been upgraded with a new CPU (603e +24MB RAM onboard + 32MB additional RAM) and HD (three times : 2GB -> 6GB -> 18GB) and both my 3400 and the Kanga have had their memory upgraded to the max and new 30GB. And I've repaired the mousebutton on both the 3400 and the Kanga because the plate holding the microswitch in place has a tendency to break. So this seems to comes dowm to me misunderstanding the requirements: Either a 100% working ethernet card or no ethernet card at all. I must say that I'm finding the reports here in the forum and the documentation a little lacking in this regard. I've been through this forum all the way back to mid-2002 looking at each and every post with 2400, 3400 and Kanga in the title. I started following this forum and the ethernet-only problem mid-2002 hoping for a resolution. You'll find I've posted on the problem a few times, reporting that SUSE Linux has drivers working on ethernet-only 3400 and Kanga. Then, when it was finally reported that ethernet could be brought to work, I decided to finally give it a *hard* try installing X. I've read the documentation about the flaky memory, and my next step was indded to try with another memory card and swapping the two memory cards to see what would happen. Rmoving the extra 128MB memory card just results in a gray screen, as the 32MB on the Kanga motherboard seems to be way too little to get X to start. So: *IF* I can disable the internal ethernet-only, I might be able to get X to install. And subsequetly I might be able to get a RealTek based cardbus card installed. I've already been to the Realtek website and dowloaded the drivers. I'm usually quite able to follow instructions and I don't mind messing around with either software or hardware at fairly low levels. OK - my next step will then be to completely dismantle the Kanga and remove the ethernet-card. One of the things I was going to try was also to swap HDs between the 3400 and the Kanga if I could get X installed on either of them. I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way. This has not and never will be my intension. I'm grateful for you to *finally* having made this completely clear and removing the am,biguities in the forum postings and the documentation. Now, you are mentioning the working firmware. Could this be the rreason for my problem with the 3400 and XPostFacto where XPostFacto reports 'unable to find Open Firmware name' . The 3400 is ethernet-only too. I don't mind spending money on both the 3400 and the Kanga. My first step was to see if I could get X installed. Then, I'ld dig up on one of those RealTek based cardbus ethernet cards and try my luck. It wouldn't be a complete waste of money as it's at least compatible with my TiBook. I'm new-world too with both a TiBook 800MHz and an iMac 15" 800MHz, but I hate to see good working hardware wasted. In fact, the 520c is running 24/7 as a mail- and web-server on Mac OS 8.1. I've had SUSE Linux working on both the 3400 and the Kanga. SUSEs Linux seem to be the *only* Linux capable of working on the ethernet-only 2400, 3400 and Kanga. *ALL* other distributions report these as not working. Unfortunately, SUSE has dropped supporting PPC from their version 8. |
. |
macintosh 3 |
August, 04, 2003 7:18 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
Autor's docs also points out that problems with things like frozen mouse/keyboard are usually linked to things like bad ram (which still works in OS9), or the need to change the install cd of OSX. Please read everything thoroughly, and have money available. These kinds of problems are fixed by the replacement of hardware most of the time (I hate it too, but that's the way this kind of stuff works). I just got done getting a Lombard working, initial cost $285, final cost $650. Works now, wouldn't trade it for less than a 500mhz Pismo, great system, took 2-monthes (mostly waiting for parts ) to get things going. End parts list? A new keyboard and a new trackpad/topcase (ouch!), had already tried a new motherboard and cpu and didn't fix. Stupidity? Maybe, but I had fun and learned alot about the newer PowerBooks. |
. |
macintosh 2 |
August, 04, 2003 7:07 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
Author's notes as folows: Ethernet The built-in ethernet connection works, with the exception of the Powerbooks that have an Ethernet-only connection. Those do not work, but the combo Ethernet- Modem connections do work (at least for ethernet). Documentation on the outright restrictions have been well stated in the message threads here for many months. You'll need to go back a long ways to find them. It has been found that not only does ethernet-only not work, but that it will not allow installation of OSX period. What most people do, is create a drive with OSX on it from another system, copy that over, then reinstall the XpostFacto stuff, then voila, system boots, but must have a cardbus ethernet for networking. Just between you and me, I've since gotten tired of the handicaps. All my stuff is now New World. XpostFacto now irrelevant to me. But I keep trying to help others. Please use the advice I give, it is useful and accurate. |
. |
Coolcat |
August, 04, 2003 6:49 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
All the network cards look like ethernet only cards. If you have a card that responds to internal modem commands as well as ethernet in OS9, then it is a ethernet/modem card, if not, then iti is ethernet only. Good luck! |
. |
macintosh |
August, 04, 2003 6:44 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
I hate to do this but it seems necessary. The reason why the internal ethernet/modem is required is because the OSX installer looks at the firmware on the card. If the firmware revision is wrong, the installer will not work (or just plain jams in place [mouse no longer works]). If it finds no card at all, then it will work, but without much of the ethernet stuff loaded (that's why drivers have to be installed for a cardbus card). The work around is to either to get a ethernet/modem card, or to remove the card altogether and use a cardbus ethernet with drivers for this card (and hope to heaven that your cardbus slot is operative, many find it does not, but does work for some (it's not consistant even when the thing works in OS9 [were getting mixed reports on other hardware too, like sound and video on other systems]). My point still stands and is absolutely correct. The firmware must match or be absent for the installer to operate. All the messages you list confirms my point, there are no exceptions. Not one got an install with ethernet only network card installed (if he says so, he is mistaken, and does not know how to identify the installed network card). Cardbus not the issue at all, and is not part of this conversation. I am perceiving that the real problem here is that you don't wish to get inside your hardware. The argument stems from disappointment. Learn to work inside your hardware, it seems this is going to be a necessity in your case. The Kanga is easier to work on than many of the newer systems. It CAN be done with little more than a TORX-8 driver, and some care. |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 04, 2003 12:50 AM |
macintosh |
. |
pbell3 that's not what neither the documentation nor the experience of people here in this forum. Several have reported success installing on ethernet-only Kanga eg viewThread.cfm?&thread=896&Topic=31&threadID=4969&ct=1 And geoffw in viewThread.cfm?&thread=1575&Topic=31&threadID=9177&ct=1#9177 has had the same keyboard/mouse problem, but I don't know whether he is ethernet-only too (I think the ethernet-only models were mostly export seems that way based on who has this model) And nick.ashton in viewThread.cfm?&thread=1701&Topic=31&threadID=9968&ct=1#9968 reports success too - you just have to subsequently install a cardbus ethernet card. And in viewThread.cfm?&thread=1954&Topic=31&threadID=11665&ct=1#11665 we have a G3 upgraded 2400 without ethernet but cardbus ethernet card |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook (Ethernet Only) |
August, 03, 2003 9:58 PM |
coolcat |
. |
Hello, Thanks pbell3 for the info you've given here. I just got a Kanga and I was excited to be able to put OS X on it, but I think it has the Ethernet only port on it. Bummer, I thought that all of these machines (3500s) had the combo card, but the plug on the back of mine just looks like a normal RJ-45 to me. When I tried to use XPostFacto I could only get to the initial start-up screen, the grey Apple logo, but the little twirly-gig never even came up. I finally got back into OS 9 by zapping the PRAM. I didn't understand from the help file that the combo card was required for install. The way I was reading it was indicating that the only problem with an ethernet only card was that you would lose ethernet functionality, but with a combo the ethernet still worked. Any idea where I can find a combo modem/ethernet card cheap? PowerBook Guy has them, but for $100! Ouch. That's more than half of what I paid for the machine. Later, Cool Cat |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 03, 2003 8:02 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
It is obvious you dont "KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ETHERNET" on this machine. I implied nothing. I stated a simple fact. If you read all the author's notes on installation, he outlines that the 2400,3400,Kanga WILL NOT INSTALL at all without the presence of the ethernet/modem card installed inside your Kanga. I did in fact have both a 3400 and Kanga. Both had the ethernet/modem card installed (required for proper installer operation; not present, it causes problems with PCI-buss operations and that causes other problems; which means no install possible without the ethernet/modem card installed). Neither gave me the slightest trouble installing (3400/OSX.1.5-Kanga/OSX.2.6). No special options were used in XpostFacto 2.2.5. It took an inordinate amount of time, after a large list of warnings, just to get to the installer screen and acts dead for a very long time (because neither system has the expected hardware in it). But the installer functioned properly thereafter, system installed and the minimum available hardware (including keyboard/trackpad) worked properly. Stuff that did not work, I have already listed. There is one other important caveat, that most people miss. Since OSX is very tied to information stored in PRAM, it is imperative that your PRAM Battery be in working shape. While OS9 works fine without a battery, many people think OSX will install and run without it also. This is not the case. A working pram battery is an essential. I have helped you as much as I care to. I do not wish to respond to another of your messages. Please ask for help from someone else, but I warn you, very few people have tried XpostFacto on 3400/kanga. Most however have been successful within the caveats I have already stated. I've been dealing with computers for 33years, and I try to help in as plain a fashion as possible, but being professional grade for decades, I stil feel that there are others that know more than myself. It's an attitude I think you should learn as well. Good day to you, Sir. |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 03, 2003 6:12 AM |
macintosh |
. |
pbell3 I know *everything* about the Ethernet problem which isn't my problem at all. Frankly, at present I don't care about the ethernet issue unless it influences the keyboard. As both the title of the thread and the text says, I've problems with getting the keyboard and mouse to work: they are frozen at the top left starting position and won't budge :-( thus, I can't get any further than the first screen in the installer where you have to select a language. Or are you saying that Mac OS X won't work and install at all *unless* there's a working/compatible ethernet card installed from the very start ??? You are implying in your first answer that you did have a Hooper/3400. Which ethernet/modem board did it have ??? what special steps did you have to take to get Mac OS X to install ??? As to my keyboard, it's the danish version, but that ought - in my experience - not to be an issue. Now, 1) what version of Mac OS X did you install on your Kanga or 3400 ? 2) which settings did you modify in XPostFacto - if any ? 3) which version of XPostFacto did you use ? 4) did your machine have combined ethernet/modem *or* ethernet-only ? |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 02, 2003 1:51 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
I DID in fact address the ethernet question completely. DO not be confused. The dongle for modem/ethernet is not part of this particular concern. There are two ethernet cards used inside the Kanga (as in the 3400). One is ethernet only, the other is ethernet/modem. Ethernet only will not work to install OSX. You MUST upgrade the ethernet card to the ethernet/modem card to get OSX to install. That's just the way it is. Live with it. I was trying to help and the info given was and is accurate. |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 01, 2003 4:33 PM |
macintosh |
. |
I'll reformat this thing :-( seems you need to do double-linefeeds for them to register :-(( I can get to the OS X installer, but the keyboard & mouse is frozen. Only one time have I had keyboard & mouse working at the 'Select Language' screen, but that installation broke when X started again and wanted the user information etc : the screnn suddenly went blank at the first form before I had any chance to do anything. System information : PowerBook G3 Kanga ; 160MB RAM ; 30GB HD Ethernet-*ONLY* network port Mac OS X 10.1.3 2Z691-3550-A HD has been partitioned as follows: (partition name : size) X : 7.5GB ; 9.1.1 : 1 GB ; 9.2.2 : 1GB ; swap : 4GB ; x-prog : 4GB ; brugere : 10.25GB XPostFacto 2.2.5 - Verbose Mode - Throttle 1 - Debug : Support old GDB How have the rest of you Kanga G3 owners gotten it to work ??? Yours in happy hacking - Bjarne ---- pbell3 Frankly - you are not adressing *any* of my concerns/questions; and if you had read my text more closely you'ld have seen I've *NOT* gotten the dongle-version with combined ethernet/modem !BUT! the ethernet-*ONLY* version where it's a known issue that ethernet doesn't work. Now: how *did* you get XPostFacto and Mac OS X to work |
. |
RE: Kanga G3 PowerBook and keyboard/mouse |
August, 01, 2003 12:55 PM |
pbell3 |
. |
Kanga, like Hooper, must have the dual-use modem/ethernet port for the OSX installer to do its thing. Keep in mind that ethernet won't work after install and can't be seen by the networking software (at least it didn't on the one I had). The built-in modem is inop, and you'll find that OSX does not know that the Kanga is a Powerbook. In other words, no battery meter and other functions. No sleep of any kind (it'll work but it will corrupt the hard drive), and zero power management. Other than that, everything was just peachy. I got away from it and went to a recently purchased Lombard. |
|
|