Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 12:37 PM |
robmonti |
I saw the following line in another post: Throttle is designed to make sure G4's that reset into an unknown state don't get there panties into a bunch... Since you're using a G3 this is immaterial. I have a PowerLogix G3 400MHz processor in my PM 7300, and thus far I haven't been able to get OS 10.1 to install with XPostFacto. Could it be that I've set the throttle improperly? Anybody have a recommended setting for my setup? I also read elsewhere that some have found it necessary to disconnect external SCSI devices in order to get OS 10.1 to install on a PM 7300. Anybody else had similar experience? Thanks, Rob |
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RE: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices. |
August, 04, 2003 11:45 AM |
worldalex |
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Good cgbufe , you seem a nice person. XpostFacto does not allow the Mac OS X install CD to boot a Mac. It instead makes the Mac think that it is booting from the CD. You must select the CD as the installer device and set your Hard Drive as the install to device. XpostFacto will then move the installer and some other files from the CD to your Hard Drive. You will then seem to boot from the CD, but infact be booting from the Hard Drive. A simple note: do not choose the "Erase and Install option" in the installer. If you erase the hard drive, you erase the installer, and will promptly crash.Since the installer, and for that matter the Disk Utility, think you are booted from the CD, they will happily attempt to erase or formatt the drive. and of course the Mac will promptly crash. good luck |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
August, 04, 2003 9:15 AM |
jseibyl |
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joevt Thanks, that helps answer some of the "black magic" questions. It worked for my machine! I hope I don't have to sacrifice a goat or something to appease the OSX gods. :-) Jim |
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RE: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices. |
August, 02, 2003 3:15 AM |
cgbufe |
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I get the "waiting for root" message when I try to install Jaguar. I had replaced the trashed CD reader in my 9500 with an internal Yamaha CRW6416S (CD-RW). I can boot from CD in OS9, but the 2.2.5 XPostFacto setup window says Jaguar can be used only as an install disk for OSX. I get the same message when I try to install the OSX version 10.0.1 CD. I am starting ExPostFacto on my internal 1.4 GB SCSI drive (OS 9.2.2) and trying to install OSX on a freshly initialized 2 GB external SCSI drive. Is there any way to get OSX to recognize my SCSI Yamaha CD-RW as a boot drive? I haven't tried playing with the throttle. I also have a MacAlly USB/FW PCI card and a 60 GB OWC firewire drive that I would like to use as an OSX boot drive but can't. |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
August, 02, 2003 1:06 AM |
joevt |
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The throttle setting in XPostFacto affects the "Instruction cache throttling control register" (ICTC) SPR 1019 of G3's and G4's. The register "has bits for enabling instruction cache throttling and for controlling the interval at which instructions are fetched. This controls overall junction temperature". You can read all about it in the Motorola PPC docs. Basically, if you have a problem that changing the throttle fixes, then it means that the problem is caused by a driver of some kind that was not meant to run on G3's or G4's (or at least G3's and G4's running in Old World Macs). Such drivers are probably not written correctly. But if OS X is only supported on G3's and G4's, then shouldn't all OS X drivers be written correctly for them? Well, there are Open Firmware drivers. PCI cards have Open Firmware drivers. Presumably, any PCI card invented after the G3 should work in a G3 with no problem as well as older systems if they did it right (there are differences in Open Firmware between Old and New World Macs). Same for PCI cards invented after the G4. There are clearly written specs on how to write Open Firmware drivers so it would be hard to make a card not work correctly with newer processors. There is Open Firmware in the Mac ROM. The XPostFacto OS X nvram script patches about 10 different places in there. Maybe there are other places in there that need patching? In conclusion, the throttle setting is some kind of black magic. It shouldn't be necessary but for some it is. BTW, I have a G3 in my 8600 and the "none" throttle setting seems to work fine. |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
August, 01, 2003 8:42 AM |
jseibyl |
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I have to admit, I am unclear about what EXACTLY the throttle setting does. All I know is that my beastie likes the setting at 10. I played with it and had some boot issues on other settings where it would get stuck in a process, I could hear the same cycle over and over as it tried to spinup the drives. I got the grey screen, saw the grey apple, and then the dreaded circle with a line through it. Just doing a warm reboot fixed the issue, but by going from throttle setting 8 to 10, the problem went away and it cold boots fine. When I first instaled 10.1, I used the onboard video of my 8500, without ANY extra PCI cards. The first CD rom I tried didn't even boot(this cd drive did not boot os 9 disks-a Mashita(sp), but I swapped out the drive to one that booted an os 9 disk, Sony, and it worked great. The odd thing is that both drives came from factory built 8500's, go figure. I have since gotten rid of the Mashita drive being too lazy to see if I could update the firmware. Anyway, after I confirmed it was stable, I went to 10.2.6, with nothing in the PCI slots, still onboard video. Confirmed stability, then added cards one at a time ATI 7000 first, usb/firewire, then scsi, making sure it worked before adding anything else. Once that was done, added external scsi stuff, then internal scsi stuff, usb, firewire stuff last. This took a while, but if a problem ocured, I knew EXACTLY where to start troubleshooting. I really didn't have any major issues. The scsi drives required a bit alchemy, but that is expected. I have since upgraded to a 9500, by the same procedure SANS the install of 10, I literally just plugged the drive in. I had to start with the video card in, as this mobo has no built in vid, but NO problems on that. My config 9500, 1gig ram(interleaved), g4 800, ati 700(slot 1) usb 2.0/firewire combo (slot 2 Macally), 2940 card (flashed from Pee Cee firmware), two drive on intwernal card, one external cd burner on card, two drives an cd rom on mobo bus, firewire DVD (Pioneer AO3, LinoColor scanner on external mobo scsi) |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 10:02 PM |
worldalex |
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Some things to consider. The Radeon 7000 has issues with 10.1 and earlier. Mac OS 10.2 works great with the Radeon. I would remove any extrneous PCI cards. This is an old Linux, Unix trick. Once the OS is installed, then put in the unneccessary cards. When I say necessary, I mean essential for the machine to work, like a video card in a 95/9600. Hence try pulling the USB card. Take a look at the faq. It has some info on the Throttle feature, such as that it is used with both G3's and G4's. http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/framework.cfm?page=FAQ.html |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 9:50 PM |
worldalex |
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"Throttle isn't for G3s.", hunh???? I used the throttle to slow my G3 down so that I could install 10.1. When I upgraded to 10.2 this was not an issue. " . . . make sure G4's that reset into an unknown state don't. . ." hunh, an unknown state??? The throttle slows down the processor during boot. I hadn't heard that the G4 booted at a different speed on its own, ignoring laptops of course. Desktop G4's boot at odd speeds and then settle down later, interesting? Ya learn something new every day. Wow! |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 7:47 PM |
powderhaus |
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i think that your CD ROM will kill you later, i had the same brand and it can't boot. but there has to be some other problem because if that was it it would say "Waiting for Root". Unless it came with the computer, i think all the CD ROMs that apple provided should boot because they have Apple ROM. How far in the boot process do you get? It seems that that is farther along in the boot so the only thing i can think of is what Lei1 said. |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 6:13 PM |
lei1 |
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I don't know if this could be your problem but I had to disconnect my network in order to get 10.1 to install. If you have any ethernet cables attached to your 7300 try disconnecting them before the install. Good luck. |
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RE: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices. |
July, 29, 2003 4:27 PM |
robmonti |
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Okay -- here's a thorough breakdown on my setup: PM 7300 PowerLogix G3 400MHz, 1MB cache. Overclocked at 467MHz (cache running at 236MHz) 288 MB RAM (1x128MB, 2x64MB, 2x16MB) 2GB Internal SCSI HD 12x Internal Matshita SCSI CD-ROM 1 Belkin PCI USB Card Radeon ATi 7000 PCI card, 64MB Seagate 18GB external SCSI drive (terminated) When I watch the installer run, these are the last few lines of code before it quits and I have to reboot in OS9.1: kCGErrorFailure : CGS New Connection cannot connect to server kCGErrorInvalidConnection : CGSGetEvenPort : Invalid Connection Install has unexpectedly quit (error 1) Here's what I've tried in the way of troubleshooting: * Clocking my processor down to normal speed. No change. * Running the processor at different bus speeds. No change, although I'll admit that I didn't try every one. * De-interleaving my RAM. No change. * Swapping out RAM to find faulty sticks. No change. * Removing USB card. No change. * Creating an duplicate of the install disk on a partition of my external hard drive so as to bypass using the internal CD-ROM. No change. If the throttle is irrelevant for G3's, does it just not matter what it's set to? Can I set it to zero? Also, how about the question I asked about removing external SCSI devices? |
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: Concerning the throttle and ext. SCSI devices... |
July, 29, 2003 2:11 PM |
mjoecups358 |
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Reread the fist paragraph of your post. Throttle isn't for G3s. You say you haven't gotten it to install, but you give no info at all as to what/how it fails. Later, Marty 10.2 is nicer anyhow :~) |
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