9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 14, 2003 9:21 PM |
junk422 |
Hi, I'm new to this forum and here is the problem I am experiencing: I can install and run OS X 10.1.4 with my original 604 processor (150MHz), but booting with a Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G3/400MHz upgrade card fails. Likewise trying to install with the G3 fails with a kernel panic. OS X 10.2 won't install on either the 604 or the G3. I'm using 2.2.4 of XPostFacto. I tried "throttle" on all different settings, De-interleave my DIMMs, swapped DIMMS, Removed DIMMs down to 128Mb, my SCSI is properly terminated, I've removed almost all my fonts, Zapped the parameter RAM, pressed the CUDA button, reset Open Firmware to defaults, I've reformatted the drive with Drive Setup 2.0.7 seems like a hundred times (including low level format), It all makes no difference. I boot from a clean OS 9.2.2 4Gb SCSI drive with the Sonnet enabler installed, run XPostFacto from that drive and install to a clean Apple 2Gb SCSI drive that has been formatted with Drive Setup 2.0.7. I have also tried removing the 4Gb OS 9.2.2 drive altogether and booting from the target 2Gb drive with a minimal System Folder running OS 9.2.2 and running XPostFacto from there - no difference. Kernel Panic. I have a digital picture (JPEG) of the kernal panic for the experts here to look at but I don't know how to attach it to this post. I can email it to anyone if that will help. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. VERY FRUSTRATED Spec: PowerMac 9500/150 with Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G3/400MHz upgrade card, 640Mb RAM, clean Apple 2Gb SCSI, Apple CDROM, ATI XClaim Video card, OS 9.2.2 (OS 9 Helper used to install 9.2) |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
September, 11, 2003 12:49 AM |
cjsconfections |
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OK, I think that you have the answer to your situation. If the presence of the g3 card gives you problems in any version of X it is probably the card. X will not install with bad hardware of any sort. I have seen similar problems with installations on 3 of my computers (8500, 9500, and 9600) and they were all hardware related. The 9500 was the fussiest about installation but when you say that in 10.1 the g3 card will give you a kernel panic, I'm betting on a bad g3 card. It is possible that the faster processer is pushing a marginal dimm but I think it is the g3 card. When my g4 card was developing it's bad cache, it gave my system fits. It would run in 9.1 but crash often. In 10.1.5 it was a nightmare. I used another computer to install 10.1.5 and swapped the hd to the 9500 with the going south g4. When the cache did die, I sent it back to Powerlogix and since then 10 months without a system crash. Prior to the bad processor card, it was a flaky hd and a bad dimm. After sorting out the bad hardware, no problems with 10.1.5 or 10.2. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
September, 10, 2003 8:19 PM |
junk422 |
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I can reinstall with 10.1.4 and 10.2.2 - and yes, I am installing from authentic Apple CDs (full versions). Here's the kicker: I have successfully loaded and ran 10.1.4 with the 604 - when I swap the G3 in place of the 604 - kernel panic. So I have a fully function version of 10.1.5 on a 2Gb Apple SCSI drive with the ATI XClaim video card - but when I pop in the G3 it dies with a kernel panic. I will take notes and post more screen shots. I'm giving it a last try with XPostFacto 3.0.0a |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
September, 10, 2003 7:02 PM |
OSXGuru |
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I took a look at your pictures, and it appears that these kernel panics are from Mac OS X 10.2.2, rather than 10.1.4 or 10.1.5. Do you also have pictures from 10.1.4 or 10.1.5? I'm assuming that you're trying to install from a 10.2.2 CD--is that right? Also, what stage of the boot process does the panic occur at? That is, how far do you get? What are the last few messages before this happens? I can decode the backtrace, but I'll need to find a 10.2.2 CD first (or reinstall). |
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Kernel Panic Pictures - Any Ideas? |
September, 09, 2003 7:43 PM |
junk422 |
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Kernel Panic Pictures links http://demon.shorturl.com/kpanic1.jpg http://demon.shorturl.com/kpanic2.jpg http://demon.shorturl.com/kpanic3.jpg Papu Papu |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
September, 08, 2003 1:47 PM |
OSXGuru |
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The best way to try to diagnose this would be to look at the picture you did of the kernel panic information in verbose mode. But I can't seem to find the URL in your post--perhaps I'm just missing it. If you could post the URL again, I'd be most grateful. |
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RYAN - some Tech Support please? |
September, 08, 2003 12:20 PM |
junk422 |
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Ryan, Can you have a look at this tread and shed any light? As a dues paying member, a little real support would be appreciated :o) Papu Papu |
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RYAN?- 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 26, 2003 12:06 PM |
junk422 |
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Ryan, Can you have a look at this tread and shed any light? As a dues paying member, a little real support would be appreciated :o) Papu Papu |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 19, 2003 2:20 PM |
marcush |
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I just skimmed through all the comments so I might have missed this but did you ever install a cache enabler for the G3 card? Also, how certain are you about your RAM. For instance is it 60ns or 70ns. If it is 70ns then that is most likely your problem. OSX is extermely sensitive to RAM timing issues. A G3 or G4 processor will very quickly bring to the fore any underlying problems with RAM that may have not been evident with the original processor. One solution which has been shown to work in the xlr8yourmac processor upgrade database is to reinstall the original L2 cache. You have a 9500, in which the cache is soldered on to the logic board, so either L2 cache config or Powerlogix Cache Control will allow you to enable or disable the built-in L2 cache. You might also give that a try. The reasoning behind using the L2 cache is that it seems to buffer memory access between the processor and RAM. In my machine, a Power Tower Pro 225 with a Sonnet G4/800 I have 1GB of 60ns RAM and everything runs quite well. I did have stability problems with an Xlr8 G4/450 SSE Carrier card over a year ago until I reinstalled the L2 cache that came with the machine. That was my solution until I got the Sonnet G4/800. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 19, 2003 11:00 AM |
jseibyl |
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weird....perhaps it is the CPU after all, I have had two quirky procs from Sonnet. They were good about giving an RMA, and the replacements both work well. One I think I fried, I tried to go to 9 from 8.6 on an 8500, and the screen just started acting VERY odd after the install of 9.1. I chalk it up to heat problems inherent on the cpu card, therefore a manufacturing defect. Sonnet didn't ask any questions, and I had my replacement in ~1 1/2 weeks. junk422-you have a real head scratcher, but you probally knew that already. I am curious if the MOL work-around will work for you....GOOD LUCK. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 19, 2003 10:23 AM |
junk422 |
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OK. I've decided to forget the whole XPostFacto thing. It's an excellent tool with no support (sadly) I've loaded Yellow Dog Linux 3.0 and I'm going to run MOL 0.9.68 (Mac On Linux) and load Jaguar that way. I really don't have the time to figure out why my 604 runs 10.1.5 perfectly but when I pop in the G3 it does a kernel panic. Nor am I going to spend any more money on a new video card when it works fine with both 9.2.2, 10.1.5 and YDL 3.0. So thanks for all of the suggestions and ideas, however they all seem to be based on just throwing lots of money at a problem rather than looking at what the actual problem is - that is definitely not the way I troubleshoot any problems. XPostfacto is perfect for a 604/150MHz upgrade to 10.1.5 - but it has not worked for me at all with a G3/400MHz to upgrade to either Puma or Jaguar. And the $10 for support was wasted (for me). Papu Papu |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 18, 2003 9:42 AM |
junk422 |
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Here's the kicker: I have successfully loaded and ran 10.1 with the 604 - when I swap the G3 in place of the 604 - kernel panic. So I have a fully function version of 10.1.5 on a 2Gb SCSI drive with the ATI XClaim video card - but when I pop in the G3 it dies with a kernel panic. I'm on the phone with Sonnet to see if it's a bad card. I'll keep you all posted. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 18, 2003 3:10 AM |
smwalker |
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You say you are not going to buy a 7600, yet you are a geek with more computers that you can sneeze at ... I bought mine for $30 with a 4 gb scsi hard drive and it was a great investment. Again, your easiest solution might be to install to a different computer, and then use carbon copy cloner 2.2 to clone it to the drive you want it on. You can do this by physical transfer or with two firewire cards I hear. PowerMac 9600/300 with 1.25 gb of ram, Sonnet G4 800 mhz card, 4 gig scsi hard drive, and 125 gig ide drive connected with a Siig PCI card and a Pioneer 105 superdrive connected to a Sonnet PCI card plus firewire and USB cards with Radeon 7000 video card. Also have a backup 7600 with a Sonnet G3 card. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 9:50 PM |
junk422 |
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The G3 smokes in OS 9.2.2 - it flies. I've stressed both the G3 and the RAM with Photoshop blurs, Illustrator rendering etc. I have 4 x 32Mb original Apple DIMMs and 8 x 64Mb Kingston DIMMs - all the same speed and spec. I have removed ALL of the Kingston RAM and just left the 128Mb Apple RAM - still fails. As a FYI - I have successfully loaded and ran 10.1 with the 604 - so if it was the video card, why does 10.1 only fail with the G3?? Also, I've loaded Yellow Dog Linux and Mandrake PPC Linux with this video card - KDE runs no worries. I was using XPostFacto 2.2.5 - my mistake. I downloaded a fresh copy and tried that - same kernel panic. I'm lothe to buy a video card when 10.1 works perfectly with it under the 604... Any other ideas?? |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 4:13 PM |
jseibyl |
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ok, sounds like the Xclaim could be sol for x, but if you are getting the kernel panic screen, then the card wants to work at the base level and maybe bombing as the specific ATI extensions try to load. I have looked to see at xlr8yourmac if there are any reports of people succesfully running an XClaim in X, to no avail. That card IS in the Rage Pro family, and people have been succesful running those....From the ATI site dated 1998...... "Based on ATI's 3D RAGE PRO technology and specifically engineered for Power Mac systems, Xclaim 3D provides a doubling of 2D performance compared to previous technology. With 8MB of SGRAM available, the Xclaim 3D supports 1600x1200 in true color for high- resolution publishing and design."....The NEXUS 128, RAGE ORION, and XCLAIM VR 128 all use the same RAGE 128 Display Drivers and software." Perhaps a flash of the BIOS to trick the card into thinking it is a RAGE?? The XClaim VR 128 card seems to be the only one of the XClaim series that is supported in X, but that doesn't stop me from trying... Under Mac OS 9.x (version 9.2.1 and higher) the following products are supported: RADEON 8500 MAC EDITION RADEON 7000 MAC EDITION RADEON MAC EDITION RAGE 128 Mac products such as RAGE ORION NEXUS 128 XCLAIM VR 128 XCLAIM VR (RAGE II/PRO) XCLAIM 3D Plus NEXUS GA XCLAIM 3D (RAGE II/PRO) XCLAIM GA Under Mac OS X ( version 10.1.3 to 10.2.4) the following products are supported: RADEON 8500 MAC EDITION RADEON 7000 MAC EDITION RADEON MAC EDITION RAGE 128 Mac products such as RAGE ORION NEXUS 128 XCLAIM VR 128 I assume the g3 card is fine in os9, if it is, then there should be no prob in X. The last thing is the RAM, you know the questions, I know you de-interleaved but is it same manufacturer and cycle speed? I still think the offender is the video card, if the G# runs 9 with your RAM, I don't think that is the issue either. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 3:16 PM |
junk422 |
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OK. To answer all of the questiosn asked here: 1> I only have the ATI XClaim card in the machine. 2> I have moved the card to ALL of the slots - no difference. 3> I did have it in Verbose Mode - so I have the complete dump on the screen. I will upload it to my web site and provide a link here. 4> I *know* that Jaguar will not install on a 604. My point was that it would not install on the G3 either. 5> I have successfully installed 10.1 on the 604 with XPostFacto 2.2.4. When I swap the 604 for the G3 - kernel panic. 6> I am not going to buy a 7500/7600 just to get around this problem. 7> I do not have a firewire card in the 9500. The only card is the ATI XClaim card. 8> I'm not going to buy a Radeon 7000 to get around this problem. 9> The latest download that I see is 2.2.4. I will download XPostFacto again in case it has changed without the documentation changing. 10> I have a LCD iMac, a Mac SE and this PowerMac 9500, as well as 6 PC W2K/Linux servers, 3 PC laptops and 3 PC workstations running XP and Linux. I'm a geek my nature. Again, any help would be very much appreciated. -------------- Spec: PowerMac 9500/150 with Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G3/400MHz upgrade card, 640Mb RAM, clean Apple 2Gb SCSI, Apple CDROM, ATI XClaim Video card, OS 9.2.2 (OS 9 Helper used to install 9.2), NO other cards in the the machine |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 9:21 AM |
jseibyl |
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Wierd...my posting did not take, so this may be a duplicate..... You could try moving the card to another PCI slot. I know there are issues with G3 upgrade cards and the lower 3 PCI slots on 9500's. They either don't work, or do so with lots of issues. Apparently it has been fixed with the newer G4 upgrades. The upper three slots are all fine with any upgrade. I run my 7000 on slot 1, I have 5 devices total but have the g4 800. Could be the card itself, as others mention, most ATI cards work, but yours may be sol. What other devices do you have on your machine?? |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 12:53 AM |
powderhaus |
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the forum sucks, you will find that it supports noting more the writing and reading... anyway, yeah reading The kernel panic would help, but you will have to post the pic on a web site of some kind and provide a link. If you don't have one, you should be able to go get a trial version of .Mac. I don't recall anyone using the XClaim video card with OSX, you could try pulling that. Also, i think that XPF 2.2.5 has been out, but i could be wrong, i can't even boot into OS9 to find out anymore... You could try that... 2.2.5 (January 4, 2003) Fixes a problem with certain SCSI cards which use multiple busses (in particular, some of the ATTO cards). Works better in situations where the settings had previously required too much space in NVRAM The NVRAM could be the problem but i doubt it, its worth a try. The pic you took, did you have verbose mode enabled? or did Text just come flashing on the screen? If you did not have verbose mode enabled do it with verbose mode enabled (under the advanced menu). This will tell us where in the boot process the error occurred, Kernel Panics themeless don't provide much information, to me anyway. |
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RE: 9500/Sonnet G3/400 & OSX won't install |
August, 15, 2003 12:48 AM |
smwalker |
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First of all, OSX 10.2 will only install on G3 or G4's whereas 10.1 will install on your 604. You don't mention any other PCI cards except your video card ... sometimes it helps to remove all other PCI cards. I would consider switching video cards (I know expensive) to a Radeon 7000. That could be your problem. Also, have you been able to install 10.1 to the G3 card? Are you sure that card is OK? My own experience is that the 9500/9600 and the clones are the most difficult of the Old World Macs to install OSX on ... the easiest is the 7500/7600. If you have access to a 7500/7600 you could try to install there to the SCSI 4 gig HD and downloading Carbon Copy Cloner and having it in your installed system. Then transfer the hard drive to the 9500 where you can clone your system to another hard drive that has a bigger partition. You can also connect the two machines with firewire cards I hear, but I have not tried that. |
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