Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 10, 2003 8:52 PM |
mjoecups358 |
I bought one of the six slot editions from Daystar, it was $75.00 including Fedex shipping. It came with a heat sink and hold down and some arctic silver thermal paste. For anyone who has extra ZIF CPU's lying around (I did) this is good way to upgrade your older PCI Mac... I am writing this from a 10.2.6 running Powermac 9500 with the above mentioned card and a G3/266 from a beige Powermac G3 running 300Mhz. They say the Sonnet G4/1000Mhz card will not fit on here due to space consideration. I am planning on buying one of the Powerlogix G3/900 and seeing how fast this shit will go... Marty PS This XLR9/Daystar card looks like a good option(for six slotters especially) when combined with a hand me down CPU or ebay hand me down... |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 25, 2003 2:08 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
Thanks for the info. You've gotten more info from powerlogix then I've managed to! My tack was to hunt down as much info as possible before buying. I now know that there are at least 3 versions of the Zif cards. 1. jumpers for settings on the Zif 2. round knob switch 3. dip switches and perhaps a fourth with limits on settings like the one you have. Would you mind emailing me the dip switch chart please? I'm helping a guy who has bought one of these used and it likely doesn't have the limits built in. willschou1@comcast.net thanks and best of luck. keep us posted. I may still buy one but don't like the fact they have limited the use of these Zif's bummer. Will |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 25, 2003 11:33 AM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
I don't think so will... Powerlogix actually was very forthcoming about the fact that: 1) The switches used to control the available multipler 2) is you set an insane speed (2Ghz) you COULD blow up the CPU 3) They are now limiting this in the firmware/setup of the ZIF. They also emailed me the complete chart of dip switch settings... So they are not hiding anything as far as I can see. Marty |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 25, 2003 5:04 AM |
willschou1 |
. |
" bad news. The bus speed on you computer is still determined by your regular settings (ie the XLR8 card). The dip switches on the XIF somehow just adopt the card to the approriate setup (ie 66Mhz for beige or 100 for B/W). The bad news is that P/L is artificially limiting the available multipler in hardware on the ZIF, as it would be easy for people to set the ZIF to a speed that would pop the chip. This way they don't have to deal with RMA's of exploded overclockers. So, the 900Mhz Zif is limited to 13x multipler on the Beige G3 and the 800Mhz is limited to 12x." Marty, thanks for the report. I sure don't have all the info I need but one point I've been trying to get across is: The dip switches on the bottom of the Zif set the multiplier limits. I have a friend with much more hardware know how then I ever hope to have. According to him if the dip switches are setup the way IBM ment for the 750 FX chip to be,changing these dip switches are the key to getting higher multipliers. He says it shouldn't fry anything but just not boot if you get them wrong. Too bad they are on the bottom so hard to change them a lot for testing. powerlogix must know the correct settings but refuse to give them out. It is also possible that the off settings for all of them might work. later. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 24, 2003 12:21 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
bad news. After a nice chat with Jason at Powerlogix I determined the following... The bus speed on you computer is still determined by your regular settings (ie the XLR8 card). The dip switches on the XIF somehow just adopt the card to the approriate setup (ie 66Mhz for beige or 100 for B/W). The bad news is that P/L is artificially limiting the available multipler in hardware on the ZIF, as it would be easy for people to set the ZIF to a speed that would pop the chip. This way they don't have to deal with RMA's of exploded overclockers. So, the 900Mhz Zif is limited to 13x multipler on the Beige G3 and the 800Mhz is limited to 12x. This means that on my system, running at my 58Mhz bus the zif does run at 754Mhz with it's cache at 1:1, but I cannot and will not be able to select the higher multiplers. Even more annoying is that Jason said the chip used on my ZIF is actually rated at 1Ghz. Doh, my elusive dream of a Ghz PCI powermac so close, but thwarted by P/L engineering... Also as of this morning the ZIF is no longer working at all, So I will be RMAing it. I'll let you know if anything elso becomes clear... Marty PS Strangely this is inconsistent with the report at XLR8yourmac. I think the early ZIFs didn't have this multiplier throttle. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 23, 2003 3:57 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
Mike , Thanks for the xlr8yourmac.com report! I'm wondering why there wasn't more talk about tjis report on xlr8yourmac.com. Perhaps there was and I missed it. I'm hoping Marty will keep us updated on how things are going and give us a full report of what has worked for him! Will |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 23, 2003 3:32 AM |
Michael.Felsmann |
. |
I just found that somebody else did this before (with SUCCESS). Go to the cpu upgrade database at "xlr8yourmac": http://forums.xlr8yourmac.com/cpureview.lasso Choose "XLR8 CarrierZIF card" at " Select a Card Manufacturer", leave "Mac Model Category" empty, Click "Search". Scroll down a bit to find the entry for the "G3 800/800 Powerlogix ZIF" In short: he was using this on a PTP250. Bus speed was set on carrier card as normal, cpu speed switches on carrier card were set to OFF (the ZIF module OVERRIDES them, anyway). Speed settings on cpu module were set as given for 66 MHz to simplify things. So the thing starts a bit slower until the cpu director init gets loaded where the "real" multiplier is then set. In this case a bus speed of 45MHZ was used, so a multiplier of 18x gave 810 MHz cpu speed. This was to try to overclock the (800MHz) cpu. While I would have preferred a 50/800 setting with this module, bottom line is: he could select a cpu speed multiplier of 18 in "CPU Director", which would give a clean 900 MHz at a bus speed of 50. hope this helps Mike |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 23, 2003 3:16 AM |
willschou1 |
. |
As I've tried to explain setting the dip switches for a beige 3 (66 MHz bus)then setting the Carrier card for 58 MHz bus is setting the bus speed twice. You should likely only be using one or the other for setting the bus speed not both! Best of luck. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 23, 2003 2:26 AM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
I have it running at 754Mhz. After pulling the ZIF and discovering the tiny little switches... I set it up to think it's a Beige G3 and then I set the XLR8 card to a 58Mhz bus, which I know works on this computer. When i then relaunched CPU Director, The options available allowed for the 13:1 option... Feels pretty speedy too. I will see if tomorrow I can find some more time to experiment with additional switch positions, For what it's worth, Gary from Daystar got back to me within hours to try to help, he also pointed me to the switches, so that seems to be where the effort will be. Marty |
. |
PS |
September, 23, 2003 1:57 AM |
willschou1 |
. |
Ok a small change in info. I got the dip switch info correct: j5, j4 , 43, j3 , j2 , j1 lef to right but j1 is the one set to off for both beige G3 and B&W so far right switch shows the off setting not the j5 dip switch. It is also possible that there are small jumper pins rather then dip switches. If so numbering is the same and you remove all jumper pins for off. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 23, 2003 12:33 AM |
willschou1 |
. |
Sorry but you are the first person known to me to attempt this upgrade. So there are going to be some rough spots. I have no hints as to the dip switch settings on the back of the Zif. I do know that the Zif comes setup for a B&W machine so 100MHz Bus speed. It is possible that the dip switch settings on the Carrier card can be used to set the bus speed. So lets try that. First set the dip switches on the Zif to off. There are 5 dip switches and sorry but the downloaded PDF isn't good enough quality for me to see which way the switches go for off. Turn the Zif upside down and with the dip switches on the bottom left...the switches read from left to right as j5, j4, j3, j2, j1 and the big hint is the j5 switch isn't used for either the Beige G3 nor B&W so the far left dip switch will be in the off direction. So set all switches to match this one. Put the Zif back on the Carrier card. Set the Carrier card to 50 MHz bus this will be: 1,2,4,6,7,8 dip switches on all other switches are off the 9,10,11,12 switches should always be off as these are for setting cpu/multiplier settings which is done with CPU Director software. lets hope that will work! For the clip I would likely just use a wire bread wrapper tie to span the reach! Best of luck and us know how this goes! |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 22, 2003 10:21 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
I have the computer running at 493Mhz with the Cpu Director at it's highest offered ratio which is currently 17:2. I will pull the damn thing apart and look for dip switched on the back of the Zif???? This really blows, because I don't have a proper CPU clip (or heat sync really). I need to deal with the wire I am using to hold on the aluminum plate that came with the XLR8 card... Suggestions on clip and heat sync? Marty |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital/PS |
September, 22, 2003 7:24 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
Marty , I'm not sure what machine you are running the upgrade in. Apple machines usually like to run at apox 50MHz bus max PowerComputing & UMAX clones usually run fine up to maybe 60 MHz max. Just trying to be helpful. best of luck. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 22, 2003 7:15 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
All right you got the G3 900 MHz Zif! A lot of people are wondering about this upgrade elsewhere. Chibi is correct use Powerlogix's CPU Director software to set the multiplier/ CPU speed. Early versions of CPU Director screwed up my machine but I'm using the current version and it works well. What bus speed are you seeing with the 425 MHz cpu speed? 1:1 is correct for the cache speed. I'm surprised Powerlogix doesn't ship the CPU Director software with the ZIF. The Zif has dip switches on the back which are for setting the bus speed. There are like 5 dip switches. The info that comes with the card likely only shows settings for the beige G3 of 66 MHz and 100 MHz for the B&W machines or maybe there is more info. If using these to set the bus speed all the dip switches on the carrier card should be off. You will just have to play around with the switches and see how it goes. It should just not boot if you've set the bus speed too high. It may also be possible to set the ZIF dip switches to off and use the carrier card settings to set the bus speed. Do you have the carrier card dip switch chart? CPU Director should show the bus speed also Apple system profiler will show the bus speed. I can't wait to hear more on how this is going! Powerlogix website also has PDF info file for the Zif but they must have included this info with the Zif? |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 22, 2003 6:53 PM |
chibi_delenn |
. |
mjoecups358, You might want to try Powerlogix's CPU Director. It has a bevvy of features, and might be able to set the multiplier, which once set, hopefully will stick. Unless Daystar updated (snicker, sneer, ROFLMAO) MSC 3.0 to include 750FX support, you'll be SOL with them. Powerlogix's solution is worth a try, but be warned - on my system it caused a plethora of instabilities, so hopefully once that register is "set" on the ZIF, it STAYS THAT WAY and you never have to use PL's software again. Good luck! |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 22, 2003 6:46 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
Ok, I have the Powerlogix 900Mhz card running at 425 Mhz with a cache speed of 1:1. I think it was Will who suggested the multiplier may be set by software? I do not see how to do this. Any ideas are welcome as to how I might achieve the higher multiples... I will also email Gary at Daystar just for yucks. Marty PS the existing heatsink clip is too short for the PL zif. I had to fabricate one of my own... Not for the faint of heart... |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 14, 2003 5:23 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
Great keep us informed as to how things go the G3 900! I'm really temped to buy one. I have to wait a while . I also should really buy a G4 as DVD studio Pro 4 doesn't work with a G3 but also mentions needing a AGP viedo card. I'm not sure if it won't run without these or if it just runs slower. Just so you know. I spoke with Powerlogix tech support. They had no info to give me. However if you buy the upgrade from them directly they will honor the 30 day money back warranty and also the 2 year repair or replace warranty. The tech guy passed my questions on to the engineering department but I've not heard back and it's been just over two weeks. The main question I hoped for an answer to was do they know the dip switch settings for the 45-60 MHz range. Most likely the machine simply won't boot if set for too high a bus speed. Not likely too fry anything I've been told. Best of luck |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 14, 2003 2:05 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
I am biting the bullet and ordering the PL900 ZIF card... If it doesn't work well, I can resell it to one of my customers with a B/W G3... Marty PS I will report as soon as I can. |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 14, 2003 11:48 AM |
chibi_delenn |
. |
I had forgotten that the Powerlogix G3 ZIFs were 750FX based. If somebody can figure out the 50 Mhz bus setting for the card, that'd be excellent. Too bad G4s can't do software multipliers. Oh well, hehe. Hopefully this setup wouldn't run into the same problems I see with the Sonnet G4/800/900 cards (e.g. voltage problems with the PCI bus). I don't mind being corrected if I'm wrong. Never hurts to learn now, does it? :) - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 11, 2003 9:20 PM |
willschou1 |
. |
"RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital September, 10, 2003 10:02 PM chibi_delenn . I would avoid the G3/900. Get the 800 instead. Unless your 9500 can do 60 Mhz bus (unlikely), it'll top at 800 (50 x 16). No sense in paying extra for what you almost certainly can't use. To even use the 900 at its standard rating, you'd need a 57 MHz system bus setting, which very few 9x00 machines can do, especially due to the L2 Cache soldered on the mobo." What is the above statement based on? If I understand correctly the Powerlogix G3 800and 900 use the 750FX G3 chip made by IBM. The bus speed is set by dip switches on the Zif. The multiplier is set by software and lets you use 2x upto and including 20x . So at a bus speed of 50MHZ the 900MHZ chip would run at 900MHZ with a multiplier of 18x. 16x for the 800 MHz to run at full speed. Mike @ xlr8yourmac.com reviewed the 800MHz Zif used I think in a B&W machine. He was able to over-clock to 850MHZ no problem . 900MHZ booted but would only run for 20 min at a time before crashing. He mentioned a extra fan might fix this but didn't try. I've been thinking of trying one of these myself. If ordered from Powerlogix the price is $199.00 for the G3 800 $249.00 for the 900 Zif. The main issue right now is no info for any dip switch settings except 66 MHz for the Beige G3 and 100MHz for the B&W.It should be possible to figure out. Powerlogix has told me this wouldn't void the warranty if I wanted to try it in a Carrier card. (all dip switches on the carrier card would likely be set to off) Someone has to be the first to try this bargin priced Zif! I have to wait for a while :-( |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 11, 2003 11:34 AM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
My understanding is that the Dual proc setup was never actually shipped due to some problems... I don't think this is going to work for you Chili... But if it does WOW!!! LET US KNOW! I'm sure your probably right about Daystar support sucking, but why should they be any different from Sonnet or Powerlogix, etc... As I have said before, as long as these companies will refund/replace defective products in a timely fashion (which OWC doesn't always do) that is all I ask. Lets see how fast we can go here!!!! I like the idea of gigahertz PCI mac for $300+ Marty |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 11, 2003 10:37 AM |
bralston |
. |
Chibi! Where are you getting your Mach velocity card???? I've been searching for one of those for quite some time now. (See my blog: http://www.ralstonweb.com/cgi-bin/os9foreverblog.cgi). Also, don't count on getting duals in OS X...not even XLR8 could make it work. -Ben |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 11, 2003 7:18 AM |
Michael.Felsmann |
. |
I'm thinking about using a Powerlogix G3/800(900, ...)too, so I have to jump in here. Chibi said: "I would avoid the G3/900. Get the 800 instead. Unless your 9500 can do 60 Mhz bus (unlikely), it'll top at 800 (50 x 16)." Have you (has anybody) tried such a module? IBM's data sheet states possible bus multipliers in the range of 2 to 20, so that is ok for 1GHz on our old Macs. Did PL limit the hardware and/or software to multipliers of 16 max? If 20x CAN be used, I'll probably wait a bit to see if the new cpu version gets used, too. It's said to be pin compatible, a bit faster and will have twice the L2 cache size (1MB). Wouldn't that be nice..? Mike |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 11, 2003 2:45 AM |
chibi_delenn |
. |
Oh, and one more thing - Daystar Digital's "support" (or lack thereof), is a royal joke. Their response on most of their XLR8 Branded products will ultimately be (assuming they even try to help you at all to begin with) "We're sorry, we really don't support that product, even though we sell it". They are the WORST run company I've run into in many years, rivaling even OWC's pathetic returns/testing department. It's amazing just how shoddy customer support is with many companies these days. It's as if we're just cannon fodder for them... - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
. |
RE: Xlr8 zif upgrade cards from Daystar Digital |
September, 10, 2003 10:02 PM |
chibi_delenn |
. |
I would avoid the G3/900. Get the 800 instead. Unless your 9500 can do 60 Mhz bus (unlikely), it'll top at 800 (50 x 16). No sense in paying extra for what you almost certainly can't use. To even use the 900 at its standard rating, you'd need a 57 MHz system bus setting, which very few 9x00 machines can do, especially due to the L2 Cache soldered on the mobo. I have the earlier version of the SSE card you mention (CarrierZIF MPe), and am recieving a Mach Velocity card and a second G4/400 ZIF soon. If all goes well, in 9 I'll have dual G4s, and in X, if I'm lucky, CPU director or Ryan's L2/L3 Cache Config inside XPF3 will see both CPUs and enable them for me in OS X. Unless that G4/1GHz ZIF's heatsink/fan combo is somehow permanently attached to the ZIF (thermal adhesive), then it should fit on an SSE or MPe carrier card no problem. You just have to make sure the HS/Fan points toward the rear of the machine. I mean, that HS/Fan combo looks to be exactly what is used on the Sonnet G4/800 card for PCI macs, so I don't see how it wouldn't fit. Unfortunately for me, Sonnet's higher end crap really IS crap when it comes to Radeon (R7200) cards. They fry them, literally. Thankfully my G4/400 ZIFs cost me $69 and $79 respectively (would have been both $69 each, but I waited to get the second one and the price jumped $10). I should get the Mach Velocity card soon along with the second G4 ZIF. Now I just need to find a second heatsink/clip for it. - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |