18G SCSII hang |
September, 22, 2003 8:42 PM |
easy |
I am attempting to replace on a 7300 the 2g HD with a 18G Seagate Barricuda so can run OSX on an 8G partition. Copied same OS from 2G to 18G. 18G boots fine, runs fine for a while then will hang. Cmd Option escape get out of the hang. Consistently hangs attempting to copy files from CD. Also starting up Netscape hangs in the same place each time. A Timing issue? Jumpers needed on HD. Termination of HD???? How to get this to run. No problems with 2g, runs solid. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 26, 2003 9:34 AM |
jseibyl |
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forgot to add..... theory and practice ARE sometimes slightly different! ;-) |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 26, 2003 9:32 AM |
jseibyl |
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http://www.a2zcables.com/a2zcables.filereader? 3da6cec308fdc3242719424d361d0696+EN/userpages/37 Here is a good online reference for scsi. While 80 pin drives ARE primarily designed for rack server and RAID aps, there is no reason why they shouldn't work in our machines, with the proper configuration. Happy reading! |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 25, 2003 2:54 PM |
mjoecups358 |
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It's true that most SCA drives were used in RAID racks to begin with... Still in know way does this make the drive different from it's 68 pin brothers (other then the connector). There is no issue unique to these drives in terms of using them in your mac, other then you need good quality adapters and cabling. I use several of these 80pin drives without any problems... Marty |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 25, 2003 1:39 PM |
tippingj |
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>There is no such thing as a RAID drive. >This is just another SCSI drive. >Marty Yes. It is a SCSI drive.. But regardless. SCA 80 Pin was developed with RAID in mind, and I have *never* see 80 Pin SCA used as a primary storage device in anything other then a few Sun machines and RAID arrays. The reason why I say this is because it is 80 Pin SCA. There is still 68 Pin SCSI-2/3, which is generally meant for SCSI based systems because the Power lines are *seperate* from the data conector. With SCA 80, the Power lines are in the 80 Pin connector, and therefore it makes things easier for manufactors in the use of Removable storage, one connector=less mechanical failure as opposed to having 2 seperate connectors (power and data) that you have to worry about getting lined up and properly connected when removing/inserting a drive. Just think. Have you ever seen these drives out on the general market, ie, Futureshop? Someone says RAID, someone else says 80 Pin SCA. 80 Pin wasn't meant for home or Mac use, especailly in a boxed up Mac case with little ventalation. These drives are beasts and are usually found in a Server or another form of higher-end equipment. They aren't RAID drives, and I will correct myself. They were meant for RAID use. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 25, 2003 12:22 PM |
voxxdigital |
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hyendole, I don't know exactly how you will do this, but your 7300 needs some serious ventilation. If you have a little spare $ to invest, remove all the hard drives and install a new one with the capacity of all three together. This is one solution. I would't cut any power wire if I were you. Buy a 4 pin power connector with the pass through. Some coolers even come with these adaptors. Repalcing the Tempo for a Tempo Trio would also giving you USB-2, firewire and ATA, freeing the USB/FW card slot and alleviating the power demand. (the free slot could be fit with a 100Base-T Realtek ethernet card, which demands very little power and is very cheap). Jim, I think the workaround are precisely the terminators. |
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RE: 18G SCSII cooling |
September, 25, 2003 7:24 AM |
jseibyl |
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I just got an extra case fan and duct taped the thing between the power supply and hard drives (pm 9500). Using the 4 pin power connector with the pass through. I am not a big fan (pun ;-0) of the 80 pin drives, I have had headaches making them work well. The biggest prob is ID and termination. The one that I did get to work has a passive terminator on the cable connected to the drive, and is the only drive on that particular bus, 2940 card 68 pin to the drive. It is an 18 gig Seagate Barrauda BTW..... The 80 pin drives in do not have termination, that allegedly is covered by the adapter, but that didn't work for me. On a whim, I plugged the passive terminator in, and it came right up. Never had the "head parking" issue, but that drive did odd things like spin down for no reason after it had mounted until I got it right. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 25, 2003 4:59 AM |
tempest |
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hyendole2: Only way to check if your HD is running hot or not is to touch it with your finger. Just use a 4-pin cable splitter. No other place to get the power. Metal won't help much without airflow. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang/ heat issue |
September, 25, 2003 12:47 AM |
hyendole2 |
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Hmmm. I just added a barracuda 9GB 10,000rpm to my 7300 which has 2 other ATA drives already in it, plus all PCI slots full (Radeon 7000, USB/FW and Sonnet Tempo). I noticed that with the case off it ran hot, but with it in the upper bay I can't feel any heat coming through the case. Is the metal in the inside of the case helping it cool, or should I add a fan? And if so, where on the mobo is there a 12v tap? Or should I use the HD cables and split one of them? (Note I removed the floppy to make space for the 3rd ATA drive - so maybe extra ventilation through there?) Is the power supply in danger? Will I be forced to buy a G5? :-) |
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RE: 18G SCSII - read first |
September, 24, 2003 2:16 PM |
voxxdigital |
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Hmmm.... I have a similar drive, 80GB 10,000rpm 80-pin SCA with adapter to SCSI-2... I had similar problems, and the drive was brand new. I can tell the followinf from my experience: 1-is the drive new? 2-is it properly terminated? - "termination power" jumper DOES NOT means "internal terminator". Most 80-pin SCA drives DOES NOT have internal termination AND they are very very picky about termination. I strongly suggest you to put a separate terminator in your cable. In the same place a SCSI-2 drive was working fine, my new SCA drive did not without the cable terminator. 3-these drives use to work hot. I strongly suggest you to attach a hard drive cooler to your HD or some kind of extra ventilation. Hot temperatures may ruin your HD. 4-is your computer properly grounded (i.e. power outlet)? |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 24, 2003 12:24 PM |
mjoecups358 |
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There is no such thing as a RAID drive. This is just another SCSI drive. Marty |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 24, 2003 12:05 PM |
tippingj |
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>Seagate Barracuda ST118273LC 18.2GB SCA SCSI HDDRV10196 80-Pin SCA >to 50-Pin SCSI Adapter DRV10073 >Have jumpered the Force S/E Mode pins. Seemed to help. NOT much. That IS a RAID Drive, you know... Not really meant for Macs. >Changed to ID 1. Boots up fine. Hangs when copying files from cD hmm. >When it hangs it seems to happen just when the 18G clicks (servo? >engages). These type clicks are different than file transfering >clatter. They continue every minute or so even when system is hung. >Hung as in the pointer still moves but there is no response to >clicking the mouse. There is no Servo. There is a head parking mechanism. It will engage if the Drive head is locked up- sometimes the head can hit the parking mechanism and accedentally lock itself (like it would when shut down), so the Drive will attempt to unpark the drive by activating the lock mechanism that would have otherwise released the head. These Seagate drives aren't as reliable as IDE or true SCSI-2 in my opinion. RAID drives seem to be much more prone to failure and shock-death. Sounds like your HD heads are getting caught/latched up and can't move, so the Drive parking mechanism (as the drive thinks the heads got parked) is kicking. Ether that, or the drive is literally, twitching at its death. Time to backup and replace the drive. Don't bother to open it up. Nothing in there you can repair. >The 18G seems to run quite hot. Any SCA 80 Pin (RAID, remember?) drive is meant to be in a fan-cooled case. They have multiple platters (more then normal) and therefore have more air friction, causing more heat. You NEED to get it on a Fan system or it will overheat and cease up. Trust me. I run a 6 x 18GB Raid of these drives in my Server, and they heat the room quite effectively even with fans. You should see teh 10K RPM drives..... |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 24, 2003 12:01 PM |
jseibyl |
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also, those larger scsi drives WILL run hot, can you cool it down with another fan?? Sometimes a drive will start to act up if it is too hot, simple physics, can you try to run it with your case open and the drive sitting out while still plugged in?? They need space to get proper cooling. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 24, 2003 11:59 AM |
jseibyl |
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BTW.... There is an old geek trick to tap the drive with the handle of the screwdriver if it is acting funny. I have done this on several occasions where it loosened the drive up to at least allow the recovery of SOME of the data. It doesn't work all the time, but enough to put it up on my list of "simple" solutions. GOOD LUCK! |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 24, 2003 11:56 AM |
jseibyl |
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Sounds like a mechanical problem then. BACKUP ALL YOU CAN. Not sure how much life is left in that drive but i suspect it is headed to the deep six SOON. Those odd clicks you hear could be a bering on the servo that is having difficulty, when it spins, it hits that, which slows down the rotation of the disk, and the crash that you describe, since it is not able to read or write from that partition, If it is looking in a particular area of the disk, and the read head is in the same position, the problem will happen at the same time you try the operation. That is my "logical" guess, though unless I have that puppy in my hands, I can't say for sure. What I do know is I WOULD NOT TRUST THAT DRIVE!! |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 23, 2003 7:15 PM |
easy |
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Seagate Barracuda ST118273LC 18.2GB SCA SCSI HDDRV10196 80-Pin SCA to 50-Pin SCSI Adapter DRV10073 Have jumpered the Force S/E Mode pins. Seemed to help. NOT much. Changed to ID 1. Boots up fine. Hangs when copying files from cD When it hangs it seems to happen just when the 18G clicks (servo? engages). These type clicks are different than file transfering clatter. They continue every minute or so even when system is hung. Hung as in the pointer still moves but there is no response to clicking the mouse. The 18G seems to run quite hot. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 23, 2003 11:48 AM |
jseibyl |
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One last thing, is the barracuda a 50 pin, 68 pin, or 80 pin?? I have had issues using the 80 pin pin drives, as the adapter can be a little odd. I know others have used the 80 pin drives, and I have one running great, but had to pull hair out to get it it to work (IBM Ultrastar). I went through EVERY jumper ID combo (I had already set disabled unit attention, auto spinup, etc), and took me a few days and a few pages of notes to have it finally work, but it is running fine now. I suspect it is because I am using a flashed 2940 card, with a few drives on it. Jag is not supposed to even see this card, much less a PC converted one, so I guess I should be happy that it is..... |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 23, 2003 11:41 AM |
jseibyl |
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I agree, termination is probally the issue, or wierd cables. If you find it is still messing up after checking this, try changing the ID number on the 18 gig drive. I have an external 47 gig big ass brick that works great on ID 3, but no other ID, despite the fact it is the only device on the chain is IS terminated properly. In my case, it doesn't mount on the other ID's for some reason. It works fine where it is, so I have not explored it further. |
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RE: 18G SCSII hang |
September, 23, 2003 2:35 AM |
mjoecups358 |
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Termination seems like a good bet.... Make sure you are using proper cables and that the drive is terminated, either internally or on a cable. Marty |