Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
January, 25, 2003 3:33 AM |
chibi_delenn |
Ok, I finally got 10.2.2 booted (somehow I lost my 10.2.3 disk image that I made as a backup for restoring), and updated to 10.2.3. Thing is, I didn't get it working on the Western Digital 200 GB HD - it's running off my Seagate 40 GB, single partition (set as master, with the 200 GB HD as slave). Why the 200 GB HD is keeping OS X from booting up, I have absofreakinglutely no idea. I've got firmware 3.5.0 installed, it boots up off the same Tempo Trio, the same channel even, just not on the 200 GB HD, even though I restored my OS X "partition" from the disk image the same way to its OS X partition, which DOES reside in the first 7.9 GB of the HD. It's perplexing, to say the least, that a 40 GB HD can boot OS X 10.2.2/10.2.3 without any partition limit set, yet even with a partition limit set, I can't boot any OS X at all on the 200 GB, nor can I boot from the install CD from either my SCSI CD-RW drive (which always worked no matter what before the 200 GB HD was installed), or my Pioneer DVD-106S IDE DVD-ROM drive. Another oddity is that I used to not be able to get Classic to work at all with any rev OS X or OS 9.x combo on the Seagate past 10.1.5. Yet, as I type this, I'm doing so from Nutscrape Nauseator 4.77 inside Classic from OS X 10.2.3. Go figure. I might try Diablo 2 from Classic a bit later, tho I doubt it'll work without lowering the RAM allotment from 400 MB to maybe 200 MB first seeing as I'm in OS X, which eats RAM like there's no tomorrow ;) So, once again, if anybody here has any way to test/get a WD 200 GB SE HD working with OS X, please do post here. On a side note, I installed the new 3.0 version of the USB 2.0 (Jaguar) drivers for my Tempo Trio under OS X. While they may work, to get any USB devices even to be noticed, I have to unplug/replug my mouse in after the finder loads, otherwise both USB ports go inactive. I have no USB 2.0 devices to test with, but yeesh, that's an annoying bug, no? :) - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 05, 2003 10:20 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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joevt, Now, now....let's not get into a pissing contest here. ;) My comments were simply a response to your post, made without anger, sarcasm, or any other quibbles. :) And believe me, all said, it really *is* more of a chore getting large capacity drives working properly under Mac OS 9/X than it is in Winblowjobs. Believe me, I've messed with both ways quite a bit. I must say though that the Promise Ultra100TX2 controller card that was included with my WD 200 GB SE HD (boxed edition) was quite nice and easy. Bootable 200 GB on the PC (until I put it on the mac, hehe) and very snappy CD/DVD detection as well. FYI, that Promise controller card now resides in a friend's PC, since her mobo's IDE connectors decided to go Wanker on her, so I just gave her that card, since I didn't need it, and bam, instant Happy PC. No drivers needed, no BIOS update needed...just instant bliss. Even had bult in >137 GB HD support *out of the box*. Not one single card for Mac OS, even the SIIG, does that as seamlessly as the Promise controller did. Winblows aside, I like my Tempo Trio card. I don't get audio stutter on it (yay), and it leaves a PCI slot free for me to put in a Delta DiO 2496 when I can afford one, AND it shows up as true IDE in OS X, so I can finally play audio CDs with no problems (I couldn't play them at all EVER on the old ATA/66 card). My two main gripes about this card are the slow SLOW HD/CD/DVD throughput speeds and unuseable DVD in OS X, and also the problem with the 200 GB HD booting OS X (Sonnet is working on it - the 8 MB Cache of the WD SE HDs is apparently the problem, or so they think). Now that I have an explanation, at least somewhat, about the 200 GB HD problem, I can just deal with it for now. And as to the speed issue, I already knew that 1) it's IDE in OS X, which means the CPU must control it instead of a dedicated controller chip, which lessens throughput somewhat on our old macs when used with the CPU Hog known as OS X, and 2) it's a multifunction card - it's gotta share cycle time with three different interfaces, bridge them all together, and make it work right. That, I knew would slow down the drives somewhat. But the unuseable DVD in OS X is complete crap. That shouldn't be happening, and means that the transfer rates, on an *ATA/133* card, for fscking sake is <1.6 MB/ sec. Even you can't say that's not pathetic. :p Anyway, I'm still looking into solutions to both of these problems myself, so if I do happen to find one for any of the previously mentioned issues, trust me, you'll all be the first to hear about it. I share my successes with others, just because I can. :) I shall continue trying. THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN. (heh heh) - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 05, 2003 9:08 PM |
joevt |
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I guess the wording was kind of weird. By "No problem ... as long as" I mean "No problem ... except for the following inconvenient requirements" and by "don't use Sonnet's card" I mean "use another card that works" and by "8 GB install limit work arounds" I mean "Carbon Copy Cloner or install using a New World Mac". All of that was written in response to your statement that started with "nothing would allow booting" and ended with the semi-high praise of Winbloze. I realize that giving up the USB and FireWire of the Trio would probably not be an acceptable option but I felt it needed to be stated that the 200GB drive can work just as well as it does on Windows. The fact that the Sonnet firmware currently sucks (hopefully temporarily) should be no reflection on the usability of the drive or OS X. |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 04, 2003 10:22 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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Erm, that odd thing at the top of my last post should read: >>There's no problem booting from any partition on the 200 GB drive as long as you don't use Sonnet's card and you use one of the usual 8 GB install limit work arounds for installing.<< Stupid BBS code... |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 04, 2003 10:20 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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<> That sorta defeats the purpose of using the 200 GB HD, if you look closely at your wording there. ;) I kinda *need* the Sonnet card to boot the 200 GB HD at all. The other reason for me needing the Sonnet Trio instead of my old setup with the Sonnet Tempo ATA/66 + MacAlly USB Card is that I intend to fill the freed up PCI slot with an M-Audio Delta DiO 2496, so I can get digital in/out for my mac. Makes a HUGE difference with my reciever. I recopied everything back to my 200 GB HD, with the partitioning set as 7.5 GB (for OS X later on, if it ever works), 5.0 GB (OS 9), 50 GB (Apps/Games/Music), 125 GB (Downloads, updates, storage, and the Must Have (tm) backup image of my current WORKING OS X partition on the 40 GB). Phew! I'll keep trying though! - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 04, 2003 6:41 PM |
joevt |
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You can try going into Open Firmware to set up the root/helper thing yourself instead of waiting for the next XPostFacto just to see if it will work. I think it might be possible to initiate the startup of the Install CD using XPostFacto and selecting the 40GB HD to install to, then go into Open Firmware when it restarts, then change the one device that points to your CD drive to the 200GB drive. Use XPostFacto to figure out the name for the 200GB drive and shorten it manually if necessary. There's a program called "Boot Variables" where you can make Open Firmware changes from the comfort of OS 9. There's no problem booting from any partition on the 200 GB drive as long as you don't use Sonnet's card and you use one of the usual 8 GB install limit work arounds for installing. Too bad Apple made Disk Copy 6.5b11 available only to developers. It's 1.5 years old and they never finished it. The name is only shortened when XPostFacto thinks there is not enough room. I don't think it takes into account the expanding that the Trio does on startup. I think Ryan may have toyed with the idea of putting in on option to always shorten the name. The yellow line means you got past the splash screen into verbose mode. I couldn't get that far (maybe because my partition was not in the first 8GB which worked fine on the SIIG card). |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 03, 2003 3:59 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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joevt, Thank you for that post. It sheds a bit of light on my situation. You'd think Sonnet would have fixed the OS X booting on large capacity HDs by now, at least for the "officially" supported computers. I guess I can keep trying. I wish I could try even a beta/alpha of Ryan's XPF 3.0, so I could see if using my 40 GB as the "helper" HD and my 200 GB as the "root" HD would work, as the 200 GB HD is noticeably faster than the 40 GB in all areas (especially Diablo 2). I got the OS X Installer CD to work when telling XPF to "Install to Cargo Bay 4" (my 40 GB HD), then using the installer itself to install to the 200 GB, but once I went through that (2 hours to install, ugh), nothing would allow booting off the 200 GB HD. This is pathetic. I can boot a 200 GB HD in any partition configuration with Winblows ME/XP/2k, but with OS X, it's like "uh...FSCK YOU PAL!". It just won't go. Right now, I'm about to copy all my crap back to the 200 GB HD, leaving the first partition empty for OS X in the future, and reinstalling OS X 10.2.3 back to the 40 GB HD. Yay for Disk Copy 6.5b11's Clone feature. That + XPF's "reinstall Extensions/BootX" features enable a (relatively) painless and quick restore. It's really useful for when I install betas (10.2.4, for example) and want to revert so that when the real deal comes out, I can use SW Update to do so. Carbon Copy Cloner worked wonderfully too, when I used its restore to another 40 GB HD. It's just the 200 GB HD that is the problem. I'm also going to ask Neal at Sonnet if he can get their tech department to implement a new firmware where the only change would be a SHORTER O.F. NAME for the UltraTek based cards. Even XPF 2.2.5 has major problems "writing to NVRAM" half the time due to the long names. Apparently XPF 2.2.5 isn't shortening the names all the time...only sometimes. Really, really frustrating. With a shorter name in the firmware, XPF should have a much easier time with the NVRAM of our old computers. This is most problematic when choosing the Install option, as there is also an additional "*rd=pci1/pci-bridge@D/UltraTek133/ FrmTk-0/@2;0:9" entry along with the initial "helper" HD boot line. As for the 200 GB HD problem, I have noticed that it DOES read at the very least whatever is stored in the Extensions.mkext properly, and even gets the UltraTek133.kext driver loaded (I noticed this because of the Yellow line stating "skipping duplicate driver - UltraTek133 2.2.x - newer version loaded"). It's crapping out shortly afterward though.< br> I will try to get this working. Wish me luck! - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
February, 02, 2003 5:29 PM |
joevt |
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I moved my SIIG ATA 133 card (with ACARD 6280M firmware) and 200GB WD drive from my B&W G3 to my 8600 which has a Tempo Trio (with firmware 3.5.0) booting a small 20GB Maxtor drive. I get the same problem as you. I can boot OS X on the 200GB WD drive from the SIIG card but not the Trio where it stops at the gray Apple logo splash screen. I have no problem booting into OS 9 on the Trio though. I did not use Carbon Copy Cloner for any of my OS X installs. I moved the Trio to my B&W G3 and it behaves the same. OS 9 boots but OS X stops at the Gray Apple logo splash screen. It makes sense that you can't boot the installer CD because XPostFacto makes it use OS X extensions that it puts on the hard drive and the boot doesn't get past loading and running BootX off the drive. I have had no trouble with USB or Firewire. Sonnet strongly suggests that you use firmware 3.2.5 instead of 3.5.0 unless you plan to use large hard drives. It sounds like they don't trust 3.5.0 and that using it would be risky. Having two versions of firmware does not inspire much confidence in either version. The Read Me for Firmware 3.1.1 (large drive support for OS 9, 10.0 - 10.1.4) says you won't be able to boot OS X from large drives. The Read Me for Firmware 3.5.0 (large drive support for OS 9, 10.5) does not mention that limitation. |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
January, 25, 2003 6:58 PM |
ken882 |
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I was wondering if your use of Carbon Copy Cloner might be the cause of your boot failures. I've read that OS X can only work successfully on drives that have been formatted with certain utilities, such as OS 9's Drive Setup. I'm not familiar with Carbon Copy Cloner, but perhaps it's not creating an underlying drive format that OS X likes. |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
January, 25, 2003 4:20 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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I don't recall anything about OS X having USB 2.0 functionality built in so far. Every USB 2.0 card I've seen requires its own drivers in OS X, and none are available for OS 9. I'm going to find a way to de- install my 2.0 drivers though, since they force me to unplug/replug my mouse to "activate" the ports after the finder loads. As to your question about whether or not ASP actually sees them on the card (the USB ports), no. Just as in OS 9, it shows five "banks" on this card: UltraTek133, scsi (odd), blank, blank, blank). Each of the "blank" entries has a different ROM version or firmware version noted. It's probably just ASP choking on yet another multifunction card. I used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone my working seagate to my 200 GB's OS X partition, and did the reinstall BootX and reinstall extensions from XPF, but alas, it gives either a total freeze at the apple logo splash screen, or an outright Kernel Panic, even though the ONLY thing that is different is the 200 GB HD itself! Unbelievable how Craptacular OS X is about HDs. |
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RE: Tempo Trio + WD 200 GB HD, Take Two |
January, 25, 2003 11:57 AM |
marcush |
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Chibi, do you USB devices appear in ASP with the Trio's USB2.0 drivers? I would not have thought they would be necessary in any case since OSX already supports USB2.0. There is a USB2.0 6-in-1 flash card reader for $27 on dealmac from yesterday that I am thinking about getting. I need a card reader and since it is USB2.0 it would be a good way for me to test the functionality of the USB2.0 side of my Ratoc FW/USB card. |
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