OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connected |
April, 21, 2003 9:34 PM |
jeglin |
New Tempo ATA133 for my 9500/G4/800. Put it in, computer would not boot to OSX (currently I am booting off of SCSI drives on a Atto UL2D). Switched back to OS9, the system will still not boot as long as the Tempo card is plugged in to the PCI bus (I have one single 120G Maxtor drive set to master but it doesn't matter if the hard drive is connected to the Tempo or not). I get the smiling Mac icon, and lots of hard disk activity just like it's starting to boot. But then it just goes silent, and the icon march never begins. All I have to do to get it to work fine is remove the Tempo card from the PCI slot. Have tried the cuda switch and pram reset. Currently trying the bottom 2 slots in the 9500, really don't want to try the others unless I have to. Did not see any warnings about slot selection in the Tempo instructions. Am I missing something obvious? I've never installed ATA drives or cards before. |
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assorted Sonnettech comments |
April, 23, 2003 8:55 PM |
jeglin |
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Have been conversing with Sonnettech on this. Here are some verbatim comments, not necessarily in perfect context, but not taken out of context either. FWIW: "Drives have to be formatted on the Tempo card for them to work correctly." "If that [Atto UL2D] card is loading variables into the Open Firmware of your machine and using a compression routine to do that, you can hit a bug that exists in Open Firmware in the pre-beige G3 machines. The bug involves memory and how its released and what happens is that memory isn't being properly released so anything else trying to load stuff into Open Firmware (like our Tempo card) can't do that." "Is there a processor upgrade in your PTP? If yes, is it a G3 or G4? [yes, Sonnet G4/800] I'm wondering if you are running into a bug that can happen in the six slot machines when a G4 upgrade is around. The lower three PCI slots don't work well with bus master type PCI cards. And our Tempo card is definitely one of those." But later a correction: "The G4/800 shouldn't trigger the six slot problem (we specifically fixed this bug in these upgrades) and we definitely tested our Tempo cards to make sure of this but what the heck, try the Tempo in one of the upper three slots and see if anything changes." "It doesn't matter what brand it [my other SCSI card] is, what I said still stands. Does ATTO's card use Open Firmware to load variables and does it use compression to do it? If yes, the bug is there." "I know these cards [Tempo] work since I'm booting off an ATA133 card in this B&W G3 machine that I'm typing this email on. And my beige G3 is booting off a Trio card which uses the same ATA133 chipset." "According to my buddies at ATI, it [the Radeon 7000] has "bus mastering tendencies" so I'm not really sure what that means. I know that Umax S900 owners have reported that the 7000 card only works well in slot A1. Not sure if this applies to the PTP or not. Both clones are based on the 9500 motherboard." "It's not the fact that the ATTO card is a bus master or not. It's whether it loads variables into Open Firmware and uses a compression/decompression scheme to load them. If two PCI cards are doing this in an old machine like this, you'll trigger the bug that Apple fixed in later machines." "We've also seen older SCSI cards misbehave badly when presented with the new PPC7455 chip we're using in the G4/800 upgrade." "I've seen G4 AGP machines refuse to boot up after folks have added our Encore ST card that also had an old PCI SCSI card installed." In short, I think the Atto card is history, since I can't put the sheer disk space in that I can with ATA. My big problem is I'm going to have to go to extgraordinary means to get everything from SCSI (all drives 68-pin, no 50-pin adapters) to ATA, since they will not even coexist in OS9 for me. The Atto experiment was a good one, but is past its prime I think. Too bad OWC doesn't provide a way for non-registered users to find out about these nuances. |
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E: OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connect |
April, 23, 2003 12:12 AM |
jeglin |
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More experimentation tonight: there is no way the Tempo ATA card will work in this computer and OS9. Tried most combinations of slots, but focused on suggestions by jslewis. No good. Cannot remove the Atto card yet but this is likely the culprit. Will post again when I have more info. |
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OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connected |
April, 22, 2003 2:20 PM |
egonzales21 |
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Since you are using a G4 800 from Sonnet you should not need the G4 patch. This was for some older G4 cards. I have run a 7500, 8500, and now a 9600 with the Sonnet G4 with no special patch. The Tempo, ATTO, and Radeon should coexist in 9 but they never will in X. Another thing to try is that I now remember getting system crashes booting into 9 because of SCSI issues involving termination. Leave the ATTO card in place with no drives attached but try booting into 9 from a drive attached to the original fast SCSI chain. If this works then you know the cards can co-exist. Then you will have to troubleshoot the SCSI chain. |
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E: OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connect |
April, 22, 2003 1:04 PM |
jeglin |
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egonzales: Tried with extensions off but that didn't help. However, oddly, I *can* boot with a Diskwarrior CD. Then here is what happens after boot, very strange: 1) Disk Setup sees the ATA drive on the Tempo card. 2) Drive initialization fails. 3) Reboot, and Disk Setup does *not* see the ATA drive on the Tempo card. 4). Shutdown and move Tempo to another slot. 5) Reboot from CD and the drive mounts on the desktop, as if the initialization had succeeded! Never seen anything this crazy. jslewis: Remind me, what is the G4 nvram patch? Did I run that to get XpostFacto going? Also, I do have a Radeon 7000. So, is it likely the Tempo+Atto+Radeon will not coexist on OS9 as well? Thanks all! |
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E: OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connect |
April, 22, 2003 12:14 PM |
jslewis |
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Though it doesn't list slot prefrences I think the 1st and 4th PCI slot from processor will be much better for it than others. Put your biggest baddest bus mastering cards in the first and fourth slots. That is your Atto and your tempo, reset the cuda button and reload the nvram patch for the G4. If you've also got something like a radion, itself a big bad busmastering card, you might not be able to use Radeon+Atto+Tango. |
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OS9 (OSX) won't boot with Tempo ATA133 connected |
April, 22, 2003 9:44 AM |
egonzales21 |
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I had similar problems but mostly in X. I was able to use my ATTO UL2D card with a Tempo Trio (essetially a Tempo 133 with FW/USB2)in 9 with no problems, but was never able to get X to work because of open firmware issues. Since I was running out of time I returned the Trio and got a plain Tempo 133. Of course same problems with X but again no problems in 9. Finally just decided to give up on SCSI and stayed with ATA because of larger drives and ability to burn DVD's with attached 105 drive. Most likely your problem in 9 is an extension conflict of some type. Have you tried booting with extensions off? Good Luck |
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