Upgrade woes! |
October, 09, 2003 6:31 PM |
Sojourner09 |
Hello everybody: Thank you to everyone for your very helpful advice with hard drive defragmentation. But now, I have a more vexing problem than before. I need your help. I have been running a PowerLogix G4/450, 1.06GB RAM/Apple Mach64 Video Card (ATI), Mac OS 9.1 on a 2GB IBM hard drive (SCSI Bus 0, ID 0), and Mac OS 10.2.8 on one of 2 partitions on a Seagate 18GB HD, (SCSI Bus 0, ID 1) on a PowerMac 9500. And for 2 years, this configuration has worked for me with very little difficulties. Yesterday, I upgraded the processor to a Sonnet Crescendo G4/800MHz/1MB/ 1.31GB RAM/Radeon 7000 video card, and poof, I am no longer able to access Mac OS X on any of the other hard drives that I have it installed. My SCSI chain is as follows: --SCSI Bus 0 (Internal Drives): 2GB HD, ID 0; 18.4GB Seagate HD (2 partitions with OS X installed on the 1st partition; not sure if drive is terminated), ID 1; CD-ROM Drive, ID 3. --SCSI Bus 1 (External Drives): 18.4GB Seagate HD, ID 2 (3 partitions),; 36GB Seagate HD, ID 4 (4 partitions, with OS X installed on the 1st partition); Tape Drive, ID 5:, Scanner, ID 6 (terminated) --PCI Slot A1: 2USB/2Firewire combo card --PCI Slot B1: USB card(2) --PCI Slot C1: Nubus card(4) --PCI slot D2: Radeon 7000 video card with 32MB vRAM I talked to a SONNET technical support guy today and he suggested that the reason I am no longer able to log into OS X using XpostFacto was because my internal OS X boot drive may not have been terminated, and thus may no longer be able to support the higher speed of the new CPU upgrade. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could do to rectify this problem. Thank you all in advance for your help. Henry. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 3:58 PM |
Sojourner09 |
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Thank you very much Jim, Gregoryy. I will check all your suggestions out: good thing it is Friday. I will let you know how it turns out. Henry. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 1:51 PM |
gregoryy |
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Only ONE device on a bus can be terminated, and has to be the last (SCSI voodoo sometimes does work with it elsewhere on an external bus with zip and scanner and a burner and drives but that is the exception to the rule). Best active terminators are at www.granitedigital.com There are some disk drives that had bugs in their firmware that were corrected in later models, that was 'patched around' in later versions of drivers (even Drive Setup 2.07 can get around some). And then there are drives (Maxtor Atlas brand) that often don't work with Apple's but will with Intech or, best, SoftRAID, driver. Seagate and IBM/Hiachi have jumper diagrams on their drives, sometimes next to the pins even, and on web site. Examine the drives. Get the internal bus working properly on its own. Even if you have to remove the power and cable from a drive while you test. But do check jumpers so that only one, the last, has termination enabled, which is separate from the "termination from bus" jumper. http://www.scsifaq.com is one place. ATTO, Hitachi both have Mac FAQ and Quick Troubleshooting checklists. I try to keep a 'scrapebook' style thread of SCSI tidbits on www.macgurus.com forums under SCSI as "SCSI FAQ" though it is not a 'real' FAQ at all. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 1:38 PM |
jseibyl |
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Rather then type all this, here is a link to a good resource, should help.... http://www.a2zcables.com/a2zcables.filereader? 3da6cec308fdc3242719424d361d0696+EN/userpages/37 Passive Terminators - Used in SCSI-1 Cabling when only one or two SCSI devices are on your SCSI chain. Active Terminators - Used in SE SCSI Cabling. Active terminators are SE terminators. The end of the bus or the scsi cards are the other end of the chain and are terminated, so you only need to terminate the LAST device on your chain. If it is a drive, it should be the LAST connector on that cable, or the terminator should be in that connector. Have a look at that, and see if it makes any sence. Also is your stock drive formatted with the native apple drivers?? gregoryy is right scanners suck on a chain. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 1:14 PM |
Sojourner09 |
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Thank you very much Jim, Gregoryy, and Jonck, I do appreciate yout help. Yes, the 2GB Drive on SCSI Bus 0 is the stock Apple Drive. I am able to see every single peripheral under 9.1 out of the internal 2GB Drive. And when I have diconnected all the external stuff, the system still fails to boot into the internal OS X drive via Xpostfator...the monitor just goes blank. However, with everything connected, I am able to boot into one of the external drives on which I have OS X installed. I will try to change the throttle and see what happens. One question I have though is if the IBM drive is already terminated, does it mean that it is the first or the last on the SCSI Bus 0 chain? I saw a daiagram from Seagate that suggested that both Drives on the Internal Bus should be terminated. Also, if that is correct, how may I go about terminating the second Drive, if after I have tried all your other suggestions? Although I have heard of active termination, I really do not know what it means and how to achieve it. Where may I obtain some active terminators? You have given me a lot to consider, and I am going try all your suggestions till I find the ones that would work for me...I never knew how disconcerting it would be to go back to working under the Classic environment; it is killing me. Thanks Jim, Gregoryy, Jonck. Henry. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 9:21 AM |
jseibyl |
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sounds like a timing issue...with regard to disable unit attention, that is a MUST for a drive. With IBM ultrastars, you MUST set the jumper, some seagates are defaulted to this without the jumper, check the tech docs for your particular drive, Seagate is VERY good with their docs... Ther termination of the bus is critical for uber-upgrades and OSX. --SCSI Bus 0 (Internal Drives): 2GB HD, ID 0 I assume this is the stock apple drive?? If it is it is terminated and the other drive should NOT be. You only need termination at the end of each individual scsi bus. Also I had problems with one drive that didn't work on ID 2 or 4, the bus was terminated fine. It wanted ID3 and workes great. I have no idea why, that is what it wants, and that is where it works....nothing else changed on the bus except that id number... --SCSI Bus 1 (External Drives): 18.4GB Seagate HD, ID 2 (3 partitions),; 36GB Seagate HD, ID 4 (4 partitions, with OS X installed on the 1st partition); Tape Drive, ID 5:, Scanner, ID 6 (terminated) for the sake of finding the issue, can you remove the devices from this bus and see what happens to the internal drives, I would start by doing that, sound like there could be a conflict with all these devices and I have a hunch it might be the tape drive or scanner with your new proc. Are you able to see all your stuff in OS9????? If so, try putting the throttle down on XPF. I have a similar config with a 9500 g4 800 1 gig 4 internal drives on 2 busses, one external drive and cdrw, my throttle likes 10 as its setting, I tried running with no throttle, but got a few headaches doing that. Essentially the throttle acts as a downclocker to the proc until the low level stuff is loaded, seems to help ESPECIALLY with scsi timing. Jim |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 9:00 AM |
gregoryy |
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Are you using active terminators? If not, grab one. I assume you have two SCSI buses to actively terminate. If using a jumper for termination, you'd need to remove it. Others have found the scanner termination is flakey and doesn't work well, and is only passive. |
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RE: Upgrade woes! |
October, 10, 2003 5:06 AM |
jonck |
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Hi Henry, Sounds like the same problems I had when I upgraded to my G4/700. One thing you might try is switch the HD that you're booting X from to the other SCSI bus on your motherboard. This solved it for me, though of course it does mean that your HD is now on the "slow" SCSI bus which does mean it's going to have slower access times. Another thing you might want to try, though I haven't tried this myself (yet) is adding a jumper to the "unit attention disable" pins. I've read reports here on this board suggesting that it might do the trick. All the best, Jonck |
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