radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 28, 2003 2:08 PM |
jseibyl |
okay, voxdigital will be amused at my obsessive compulsive behavior... I went to ebay and found a listing for a PCI MAC edition Radeon card with 64?? megs RAM.... Checking the ATI site, just got a part number, and no verification if it is MAC. Has anyone heard of this card?? Is it possible to flash it if it is PC?? The seller tells me that it is a MAC card, but no further info. |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 10, 2003 12:15 PM |
worldalex |
. |
$41 shipped Just a plug for the place I bought my 32 MB. This is a 64MB card, but should be flashable. My 64MB card is an actual made by ATI, Radeon 7000, but the Sapphire should be nearly identical (different logo screen printed on the heat sink). |
. |
typo |
September, 09, 2003 4:25 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
"...at least the *7000* flashers works for both AGP and PC", I mean |
. |
RE: Radeon 7500 PCI 64MB DDR |
September, 09, 2003 4:18 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Well, for those who like to live on the edge, there's also a Radeon 7500 PCI 64MB DDR display card, made for PC. Problem is that this card is built-to-order for the Mac, that is, no flashers easily available for download (unless Apple provides it for download). I believe the flashers for the AGP version must work for the PCI (at least the 7500 flashers works for both AGP and PCI). here's the link from ATI: http://www.ati.com/products/radeon7500/radeon7500/specs.html VGA, DVI and S-Video out, if I'm not mistaken. Please note that the text mentions both AGP and PCI versions (read the small letters). --*-- BTW, I'm happy with my Radeon 7000. I'm just not too happy with the combination 'Radeon 7000 + OS X 10.2.6'... |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 09, 2003 10:21 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Here I am with my Radeon 7000 64MB DDR PCI. Retail, ATI-branded, VGA only, no DVI or TV. After some strong emotions, I could flash it properly. It works awesome in OS9, altough no more 1600x1200@65Hz as I used on the old Rage 128. 60HZ or 75Hz & up only. Since the fastest refresh rate my monitor supports at 1600x1200 is 65Hz (and 60Hz flicks too much), back to 1280x1024. Oh, well. Now running Jaguar 10.2.6. So what? Slightly better than the old Rage Orion 128. Quartz Extreme is ON, but not a significant improvement. I tested OpenGL features with Jedi Knight II and it was a major disappointment. It rendered in a frame rate of about 2 seconds per frame. You read it right. Miserably slow. Tomb Raider Chronicles is OK, but way better in OS 9. Page scroll (as in the web browser to read this thread is lightning fast in OS 9, but slow and cluttered in OS X. In OS 9, page scrolls at exactly the same time I move the mouse, no matter how fast I move it. In OS X, if I drag the scrollbar of a page from one extreme to another, it just redraws the window one second after I moved the mouse. Very frustrating. Dock icon scaling has also some gaps in the animation. Dragging windows is pretty fast, but resizing is another story. Slower than scroll. Considering that I ordered the card from the USA via internet, and the FedEx shipping value and import taxes were outrageous, (the Radeon comes in a enormous carton box filled with nothing but thin air which is expensive to ship due to the size) - I consider that it was really not worthy. Especially because I just found the same damn card for sale where Iive for a price close to the USA, delivered at my door. |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 09, 2003 3:46 AM |
joevt |
. |
Mac flasher for PC cards: 1) Download "RADEON 7000 Mac ROM v208 Update" from ATI. 2) Run the Update and select the ROM you want. 3) Go into MacsBug and type "tvb PBHDeleteSync; g". 4) Click "Install". 5) You should end up in MacsBug again when the Update is about to delete the flasher. Type "tvc; es". 6) With a hex editor, open the app called "ATI Multi Flasher" (which should have been created in the root directory of the startup disk) and change two bytes at offset $C64 from $4182 to $4800. You can guess what to do with the flasher next. |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 05, 2003 12:24 PM |
worldalex |
. |
My 2¢ Where I found my Radeon 64MB card really benefitting me was in WarCraft III. It is much smoother, and bogs down less when the action is busy. I had both the 32 and 64NB versions and the 64MB card really makes a differene. In OS 9 I don't really see much difference over my Rage 128. In OS X it makes the whole experience feel smoother. It is subtle but very noticeable. I also like that my OpenGL based screen saver moves much more fluodly on OS X versus the painful slowness with the Rage. Lastly, I tried the cards in my 9600/G4/400 and my Blue and White.it seemed that the 66MHz bus makes a difference, but not that major. I did not do any benchmarking or side by side testing between the machines. |
. |
RE: tippingj |
September, 05, 2003 9:40 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
I figured it was a flashed PC card, still got it VERY cheap, and I was able to flash it to the v208 bios, so what the hell, it works just fine, so I really don't care if it was PC or not..... Of course we all want the g5, but there is something satisfiying about the beige world, and it is OH so much more economical at this point. Besides, it is fun to hack and slash all this stuff. marcush- I heard the same thing, that is why I put so many caveats in those numbers....I plan on testing a few more times so I can get a better overall sampling and will post, won't be for a while. I have noticed a difference and overall improvement on day to day stuff, but it IS subtle. I am a graphics person so am anal about that sort of stuff. There IS very noticable difference in os 9.2 specifically with video.... I will test WITHOUT QE that is my next round. In general, I think it was worth it, besides, now I can put X on my 8500 with the 32 meg radeon..... |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 2:06 PM |
marcush |
. |
Interesting... I have an original Mac Edition Radeon 32MB in my Power Tower Pro, Sonnet G4/800, 1GB interleaved FPM RAM. Xbench only gives me 23.4/fps in OpenGL. I remember the author noting in previous versions that Radeon cards did not get high scores and that he was working on fixing that. I downloaded version 1.1 last night to see if there was any difference. Not. I'm intrigued enough now to go out and get a Radeon 7000 64MB card to try out myself just to see if the Xbench scores are any different. Curious, these cards are supposed to be slower than the original Mac Radeon. I'll post my results. I'd really like to get a working Radeon 7500 or 9100. |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 1:40 PM |
tippingj |
. |
>I went to ebay and found a listing for a PCI MAC edition Radeon card >with 64?? megs RAM.... Hmm. >Checking the ATI site, just got a part number, and no verification >if it is MAC. It isn't a Mac card. ATI never made a Mac card that is PCI and has 64mb RAM. >Has anyone heard of this card?? Is it possible to flash it if it is >PC?? The seller tells me that it is a MAC card, but no further info. Yes. I was running one on my Mac before I sold it (hello G5). The ONLY way you can get such a card is if you purchase the 64mb PCI Radeon 7000 PC Edition and flash it. This guy probobly relizes that if the Mac cards are $200, the PC card is $90, Flashing the PC to the Mac and selling it as a 64mb Mac edition is sure to bring in some bidders and cash. Not a bad plan anyways. The 64mb card outpreforms the 32mb Card easily on heavy 3D games. I'm betting that this guy has a few other cards hes selling like this. Why wouldn't you want a PCI card that has 64mb RAM and costs a fraction of the money a real Mac card would with double the RAM?? |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 12:02 PM |
jseibyl |
. |
ask and you shall recieve....thanks for the wedding words! |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 11:45 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Anyway it sounds promising... Jseibyl, would you maii me the flash updaters you have? p.s.: congratulations on your wedding! |
. |
mjoecups358 |
September, 04, 2003 8:22 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
Actually, the only bench I had for the 32 meg card had QE enabled....I got so jonesed about the new card, I forgot to bench with QE disabled. I figured I should run the comparison with it on for both...... I prefer to run it without QE as well, but at least the test is as comparable as I could make it, given that it is only one run, it is just a thumbnail and really not a true indication of the performance, but it did confirm my suspicions in a somewhat tangible way........ You know..... :-) |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 5:49 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
Like I said, just tinkering with it....figured I needed to mention for the testing I did.... |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 04, 2003 3:26 AM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
Personally I think Quartz extreme is a complete waste of time on PCI powermacs... I don't think overall it's useful or improves performance, especcialy in light of problems /slowdowns it causes. Marty |
. |
RESULTS OF 64 MEG Radeon vs 32 MEG |
September, 03, 2003 9:28 PM |
jseibyl |
. |
Okay, I get my 64 meg card, throw it in, bang zoom....starts right up! The original rom was v119, I flash it to v208 in X no problem! SYS prof tells me... Card Model ATY, RV 100 vendor 1002 Rom 113-85501-208 vram 64 megs The card itself is labeled as a Radeon, it has just the one vga port, but I knew that. THE RESULTS-(with PCI Extreme(Quartz Extreme enabler)for both cards) Using XBench I ran a test on the graphics system and I will post the results of BOTH cards, 32 meg first....(just the skinny) Quartz- Line 695.52 lines/sec Rectangle 1.54 Krects/sec Circle 662.45 circles/sec Bezier 574.35 beziers/sec text .98 Kchars/sec Open GL- Spinning Squares 47.21 frames/sec Now for the numbers on the 64 meg radeon.... Quartz- Line 817.78 lines/sec Rectangle 1.82 Krects/sec Circle 719.73 circles/sec Bezier 644.35 beziers/sec text 1.05 Kchars/sec Open GL- Spinning Squares 64.49 frames/sec There is definate modest improvement in the raw numbers, but it looks like where the big difference is in open gl. I have noticed things to be a tad snappier in general, IE I run the Helios screen saver, and it seems a lot smoother, but it is open gl...... Video- With Quartz Extreme enabled, there are some artifacts on video before it plays , though they still exsist with the 64 meg card, they are generally less obnoxious, and make iMovie more usable, though I don't really use it...... I use 9.2 for Premiere, and it ROCKS with this new card, frame rates and transitions on the timeline are MUCH improved. In general, I like the 64 meg card, I see a difference, and it DOES run better than the 32 meg card with PCI Extreme running. It shines in 9.2 with video. Please keep in mind these are just benches on my specific machine and only on one run of xBench. Everyone will probally have different numbers, but the same general results I would think. Bottom line, this card is solid, works GREAT in 9.2, and some noticible (but more modest) improvement in X. I plan on disabling QE to see what happens, but I gotta get married this weekend, and won't be around for a while.......... ;0) |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
September, 02, 2003 9:35 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
THANKS!!!!!! |
. |
RE: How to Flash, thanks to mjoecups358 |
September, 01, 2003 10:32 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Here's a step-by-step how-to-flash guide, posted here in a previous thread by mjoecups358, who I hope doesn't mind I reproduce it here. ------------------------------------------------- RE: Flashed Radeon PCI 7000 (PC) April, 02, 2003 2:30 PM mjoecups358 (...) I looked over the "german" forum, it's still all there and mostly in english too. Here is a sample. I make no promises or warrantees. Flash a PC version ATI 7000 PCI into a Macintosh version ATI 7000 PCI. I used a Retail box PC version RADEON 7000 32MB PCI 100-430290  Works really well thank you mitch!!!!!!  Here's instructions in english:  1. On a windows PC..  2. Make a windows boot disk (win98/XP can do this, or goto http://www.bootdisk.com )  3. Obtain a copy of flash utilty ATIFLASH at http://www.radeon2.ru/radedit_eng.html  or a direct link to it here http://www.radeon2.ru/bios/util/aflash2.rar  4. Unzip the ATIFLASH files to the windows boot disk  5. Obtain a Macintosh ROM file for the ATI 7000 PCI. Get it from http://www.falkemedia.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?board= hardware;action= display;num=1045243482;start=0  or a direct link here http:// people.freenet.de/amichalak/flash7000.sit  4. Unzip the Macintosh ROM file (mac7k.bin) to the windows boot disk  5. Shutdown the PC  6. Put the ATI 7000 PCI in a windows PC (leaving your current video card in, do not hook the ATI 7000 PCI to your monitor)  7. Boot up from the windows boot disk you created  8. Run ATIFLASH -i This will give you info on all ATI video cards in your system.The ATI 7000 PCI will show up as ID 5159 if it is the ATI Retail 32mb PCI 7000, with "DDR" in the description. There will be a device number to the left of the ID number , probably named 0 or 1. This is the number you will need to flash the card. If the ATI 7000 PCI is the ONLY ATI card in the system, this number will be 0. If the ATI 7000 PCI is NOT the only ( ATI only ) ATI video card in the system, the number will probably be 1.   Example 1, I have an AGP ATI Radeon which I am running my monitor on. I also have the ATI 7000 PCI in the system. The AGP Radeon will be device 0 and the ATI 7000 PCI will be device 1.  Example 2, I have an AGP NVIDIA GEFORCE which I am running my monitor on. I also have the ATI 7000 PCI in the system. ATI 7000 PCI will be device 0. The AGP NVIDIA GEFORCE will not be listed because this flash utility only identifies and lists ATI brand cards.  9. Now save your current ATI 7000 PCI ROM to a file with the command ATIFLASH -s 0 nameyourfile.bin The 0 could be 1 or 0 depending on what the ATIFLASH -i returned ATIFLASH -s 1 ati7kPC.bin  or ATIFLASH -s 0 ati7kPC.bin  should do the trick, your original is now safe on the floppy  10. Flash the Macintosh ROM onto the card with the command ATIFLASH -pm 0 mac7k.bin -f  (for device 0) ATIFLASH -pm 1 mac7k.bin -f  (for device 1)  Programing should begin (DO NOT INTERRUPT IT) and when it is done it will say something like "Flashed 12307 bytes"  11. Shutdown the PC and remove the ATI 7000 PCI.  Put the ATI 7000 PCI in your Macintosh(leaving your current video card in,do not hook the ATI 7000 PCI to your monitor).  12. Boot up the Macintosh and run the ATI v208 firmware update for the ATI 7000 PCI http://mirror.ati.com/support/drivers/mac/ati-radeon7000-mac- rom-208.htm l  13. Shutdown the Mac, remove the old video card and place the ATI 7000 PCI in the slot your previous video card was in, connect the monitor, boot the Mac and enjoy. Install current Macintosh ATI 7000 PCI drivers if you wish.  Marty again from here: So, to recap. The link to the discussion forum link is still good. It's mostly in english and there are 27 pages of it currently. http:// www.falkemedia.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?board=hardware;action= display;num=1045243482;start=0 (...) Have a nice day! Marty |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM???johnbclark |
September, 01, 2003 7:12 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
I am hoping for all the graphics stuff I do to see some performance increase over my current 7000 32 meg card. I am looking specifically for faster redraws for PhotoShop, and HOPEFULLY some better video performance. I am not holding my breath........but I want to enable QE and see if my video previews in Premiere get better. I am running PCI Extreme now, and have had some minor issues, but opted to keep it as the day to day stuff is generally better. Specifically, with QE enabled, and I bring up a vid file, there are artifacts until the video starts to play. If it runs without pause, it is fine, If I stop it, artifacts return. I am not expecting ANY miracles. This Does NOT occur in Premiere, just the QT player, or IMovie, which I really don't use, so I live with it. I have run XBench with my current config, and will test if and when I get the 64 meg card to work, and that will give at least a good thumbnail of what is going on. I will post the results when I get the card for comparison. |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 31, 2003 5:32 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
I opted for the 32M Sapphire Radeon 7000, because it included the Svideo out and DVI connector. All of the cheapo 64M cards I saw were SVGA out only. My card was $35.00 at retail, and I followed the directions as per: http://www.falkemedia.com/cgi-bin/forum/ forum.cgi?board=hardware;action=display;num=1045243482 I used a PC to do this flash, but Joe is probably able to hookup a pure mac flasher (technically) although that wouldn't be kosher from ATI's POV. There is also a thread, buried deep in the sludge of blathering that occurs here about flashing the radeon 7000... Marty |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 31, 2003 5:21 PM |
johnbclark |
. |
Sorry, this might be old news by now - but I can attest that I actually had a 64MB Radeon 7000 PCI in my hands - at the local Staples, no less! It was going for about $69, so I guess that it is a "real" option for all. Although, will 32 vs 64 MB make such a big difference on a 7300 with a 50 Mhz bus? |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 31, 2003 3:39 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
joevt, Could you post here a step-by-step "how-to-flash-a-PC-Radeon-to-Mac" guide? Plus, the link on where to download the flasher? I have a flasher here, but I'm not sure if it's the right one. Which bits needs to be modified in the flasher in order to work with a PC ATI card? |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 30, 2003 7:04 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
Hey, I just realised, I should take orders for saphires.... |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 30, 2003 6:59 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
I will let everyone know of my results on this, I don't think I will need to flash this particular card, as there is a mac "install" disk with this and the owner had it in a mirror door g4 alledgedly, so hopefully it is configed as a mac card already. I still plan on testing in my spare 8500 (NewerTech G3 300). When it runs (being optimistic) I will take a look to see EXACTLY what rom rev is on the thing, If I can flash it to the latest radeon MAC ROM, what I can and can't do, and if I can bring it up to the October drivers for the Radeon 7000. Believe it or not, I have had good luck with that driver set. I am just as curious as everyone else, so I WILL post all I can. It is the least I can do for those that have given me some good advice, and some laughs....... Here's the rub, I am getting married in a week, and going on the honeymoon to Ireland right after that for two weeks, so I am HOPING I get this mystery card BEFORE I go...........I don't think pushing the wedding back would work.... ;-0 |
. |
RE: radeon w/64MEGS?????OEM??? |
August, 30, 2003 1:58 AM |
joevt |
. |
About Mac ATI flashers: The 8500 flasher is the same app as the Mac Edition flasher (v7.3). This means that all the Radeon ATI Mac Flashers can flash either AGP or PCI cards as long as they have a Mac rom on the card. You have to change a few bytes in the Mac flasher to make it flash cards that have PC BIOS roms. The same change will allow the flasher to flash a PC BIOS onto a Mac card. The roms used by the flashers are stored in the RMDT resource. The latest flasher (v8.3.1) is the one used for the Radeon 7000. To get the flasher, you have to stop the installer from deleting it after it has run. This flasher can flash any ATI card from the Mach 64, to the Radeon 9600 (or at least the 9000) including Rage, Rage 128 etc. as long as the rom chip used by the card is one of twenty or so known types. It can flash roms that are 64k or 128k. The problem is that you need to get a rom that will work with the card you want to flash. Usually the rom requires modification first (unless the card has the same features/clock speeds as the card that the rom came from). I don't know yet if using a rom that needs to be modified will mean that the OS 9 driver and the OS X driver also need to be changed to work with the card. |
|
|