How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost? |
November, 09, 2002 10:07 AM |
webmaster814 |
OWCMAC36V Mac 3.6v PRAM Battery - Click 'more info' for the Macintosh Models this is for. $7.95 STIPPCG48001M Sonnet Crescendo/PCI G4/800MHz with 1MB L3 Cache - For PCI based Macs. 3yr Sonnet Warranty. $395.99 OWC5MD128MBE 128MB 168 Pin Mac 5V DIMM 60NS 4K EDO (2K per bank) for Apple 73/75/76/85/86/95/9600; Compatible Clones. 100% Compatible with G3/G4 upgrades! New with Lifetime Warranty. $26.75 ORM70HTL00110 Orange Micro OrangeLink+ 3 Port FireWire/4 Port USB 2.0 HighSpeed PCI Upgrade $118.99 ATI100430237 ATI Technologies RADEON 7000 MacEdition PCI Graphics Card. New, 3yr ATI Warranty. $119.95 SIISCMP4A12 SIIG Ultra ATA/133 PCI Interface any PowerMac. 5yr Warranty. $78.99 IBM07N8082 Bare 40GB IBM DeskStar 120GXP 7200rpm 8.5ms 2MB Cache ATA/100. 3yr IBM Warranty. $89.95 PLXPXW4012TBUNKIT Plextor 40x12x48x CD-R+RW Internal full Retail Kit with OWC Bundle including 25 Pieces of 40X CD-R Media, 1 CD-RW Media, and Roxio Toast 5.x. New with 1yr Warranty! $139.99 APLM8712LLA Apple Mac OS X 10.2 'Jaguar' Complete - Full Retail Package! $124.99 PowerMac 9600/350 - $200.00 Apple Pro USB Mouse - $50.00 Apple Pro USB Keyboard - $50.00 Sub-Total: $1,697.80 AirBorne2ndDayComponet Shipping + $50.00 System Shipping: $21.58 + $50.00 = $71.58 Grand Total: $1,769.38 So you just about spent 2k on a five year old machine, and you will never see the same speed as a entry levle iBook, iMac, eMac, or an PowerMac. The only obvious answer I can see is buy a new Mac. Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 24, 2002 11:31 PM |
skip |
. |
How much? 6320CD w/14" monitor: $1100 7100 W/G3 upgrade: $125 (to replace ailing 6320) 8500/132 w/192M ram: $140 (to replace #%^#$% slow 7100) G3/400/1M: $250 VooDoo 4/4500: $100 Seagate 9G SCA: $45 IBM 18G SCA: $80 Adaptec 2940U2D: $45 AsanteFAST ethernet: $30 7600 to replace dead 8500: $40 PowerLOGIX G4/450: $200 8600 to replace flaky 7600: $120 512M ram matched pairs: $96 ATI Radeon 7000: $120 That's where it sits. I've got a pretty good 8600 now, with a 19" trinitron IBM monitor that I got free. I've spent $1391 over three years. That's $347.75 per year. Since $250 is the most I've ever spent, it is actually quite cheap. To get the same level of computing machinery, I'd have to buy a tower Mac, the cheapest of which is $1699, or more than I've spent over three years. I'd expect to get maybe three years out of it before I'd have to start upgrading again. I'm now looking at the single most expensive upgrade yet, a 700MHz Sonnet card, which, from my research, will pull my hoary 8600 to within 10% of a 700MHz G4 iMac. Not bad, considering that the entire iMac is three times the cost of the upgrade and doesn't support dual monitors or UltraSCSI. Even with that upgrade, I'm $8 shy of buying a new Mac. To be sure, the dual 867 is about fifteen times faster than my 8600, although only about three tims faster than a 700MHz PCI upgraded 8600, but my Mac at home only really needs to surf the internet and play games. I don't need that horsepower. I'm tempted, to be sure, but if I drop serious coin in the near future, it'll be to upgrade my car or buy a motorcycle. The new Mac just isn't worth it. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 13, 2002 12:38 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
On a side not I was refering to the new Moto G5 (since I have a strong interest in PDA, and tablets.), not the Power4. By the way, I have an iBook, not an eMac. Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 12, 2002 4:49 PM |
heavyside |
. |
Here are some links collected for the IBM 970. They aren't really being very public with this, yet, because of fear that people will stop buying new machines while waiting for this! (I am still 100% Legacy Macs, except for a couple of non-working or partially-working iMacs "B"s that were given to me. I am this way not necessarily by choice, but out of money issues.) http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/3q02/powerpc.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/26594.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/27621.html http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,635220,00.asp http://arstechnica.com/paedia/h/hyperthreading/hyperthreading-1 .html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/25864.html http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22PowerPC+970%22&hl =en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=aoi4vm%246dg%243%40 grapevine.wam.umd.edu&rnum=2 http://www.realworldtech.com/forums/index.cfm?action=detail&P ostNum=986&Thread=1&entryID=10790&roomID=11 Okay, that's all I've got for now. Hope it satisfies. This thing leaves my poor machines so far in the dust, it's difficult for me to read, so don't consider me an expert on the subject. These links may be familiar to you, they are maybe 3 weeks old to me. -Jim |
. |
E: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost? |
November, 12, 2002 4:14 PM |
marcush |
. |
the PPC 970, a variant of the Power 4 processor, is not a G5. It's not even a Motorolla product. It's from IBM, and it is real. It has been publicly demoed and goes into full production next year for a variety of platforms, not the least of which is the Mac. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 12, 2002 4:07 PM |
mjoecups358 |
. |
Gee, why do you care... I thought you went and bought and emac and were going to leave us in peace now.... |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 12, 2002 8:50 AM |
webmaster814 |
. |
Does anyone have any rumors or insider information concerninng new CPU upgrades? And, does anyone have those dual XLR8 upgrades they made a while back for OWM? Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 11, 2002 7:25 PM |
nssridhar |
. |
Asking how much an upgraded old world mac rally costs is like asking my fisherman friend how much does a pound of fish he caught on the lake using his $40000 boat, his $4000 rod set up , his $400 freezer and his $200 cleaning kit. I have a six year old PM8500/ G3/400 ( running at 450MHz with a speed tweak) OSX10.2.2 off a pair of 30 gig IBM 75GXP's on an Acard 6860, with a Combo, firewire/USB from Sonnet, an old Voodoo 3 card ( by god it works). I have taken it apart and put it back together more times than my son did with his lego set when he was two years old . I am about to increase the memory from 256 to 512. Incidentally did I mention it also has a built in Yamaha CDRW which works in all modes in OSX. Now I have a 700Mhz sonent G4 on order. I have put roughly $200 or so every year on this box( So I splurged this year and spent $300). It does everything my QSG4 does except perhaps digital video. It is a complement to the design of the Mac platform that the old faithful still chugs on like the day I bought it except at 10 times the speed. It is not the money. You do it because you love it. |
. |
E: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost? |
November, 11, 2002 6:11 PM |
michael587 |
. |
we have a small dtp business. Within the last 3 months we bought an emac and a 800mh Sonnet G4 upgrade for an old 7600. We spent the money we could afford and got 2 pretty speedy machines. The 7600 feels as fast as the eMac, though it probably isn't, all things considered. We "need" dual monitors on some of our machines which we couldn't do on an emac, and imac or an ibook, so a new mac equivalent to what we're getting with the 7600 and our old monitors would be quite costly. I think we got quite a bargain. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 11, 2002 5:58 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
You know it is funny... I am not impressed anymore when I read about the new G5... Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 11, 2002 3:55 AM |
paul_findley |
. |
I'm holding out for a G4 ibook! Then Virtual PC might be barely usable, and I can dump my Compaq. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 11, 2002 12:25 AM |
jeglin |
. |
Because of my Power Tower Pro (best Macintosh Apple never made), here I am running OSX, my last purchase of an Apple machine being 1992. Which I have been quite proud of and happy with, having witnessed Apple's stupidity with clone licensing and that abortion they called Copland. I am real close to buying the new iBook though. I figure 10 years is enough, perhaps. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 6:31 PM |
marcush |
. |
I am similarly attached to my Power Tower Pro. It is still massively useful to me. I've been saving for a new Mac Tower since last year and could go out and buy a dual 867 tomorrow if I chose to. Since I can I have decided to wait longer. I can wait because this machine has shown itself to be capable of everything I've thrown at it so far. When the PPC 970 appears in Macs is what I'm shooting for now. Even then I may elect to keep this machine in service. I haven't ruled out another processor upgrade in the interum either, should 1k+ Ghz upgrades become available. In short, my Power Tower Pro is in equal parts hobby and useful production tool. I am not persuaded that it is not up to the task for either pursuit. Also, as Paul Findley points out, many of the things that I have bought for use with this machine, excluding processor and RAM will be used with my next machine. If fact processor and RAM are the only things that won't be able to move to the next machine. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 3:09 PM |
paul_findley |
. |
webmaster814: There was a post at www.dealmac.com a few days ago for the Sonnet 700MHz for $297. They archive their posts, so you can still find it. I have the 800. By the time you get to $250 for a 550MHz ZIF on ebay, you might as well buy it from OWC for very little more. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 2:42 PM |
timjudym |
. |
I use my OWM here at home mostly for doing just this, its a web machine, But i also use it for PS work as well as maintaing a few websites...I sometimes have troble with it, and because i am running osX I lose my Raid., so it is much slower running osX than it was running a duak 10k raid in 9.1. I can easily afford to pop over to the apple store and buy one of the dual 867's or stop into macSolutions and pick up a 933 with super drive, in fact i have 4 of them at work so i know how they work, but to be honest of all the macs i own and run, this PTP is the only one i truly am attached to. I will try and keep it for as long as it will have me...sort of like my wife*L*. I can't imagine anyone getting attached to a QuickSilver in the quite the same way...JMO. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 2:06 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
I will admit that the list was a bit full blown, but I wanted to make sure it was up to date. I am in a situation where speed is my key factor. I will admit a PowerMac 9600 with and 800mhz G4 is very impressive. Not for speed, but more or less just to see a five year old machine handle comparable modern speeds. $400.00 is a big investiment for me into my OWM. I have to analyze whether or not it is really worth it. I have seen on ebay B&W G3 300mhz machine going for under $200.00, and G4 550mhz Zifs going for $250.00. Which then I have to really reconsider a 9600 purchase, since the B&W bus is so much faster, not to mention the builtin ATA interface, USB, and Firewire ports. It is in situations like this one where I really have to second guess things. Honestly if they came out with 1.2ghz upgrades for OWM I would without a doubt buy one even if it did have a price tag of $6xx.xx. Simply for the fact of the amount room for internal drives, PCI slots, ADB, A/V/S ports, floppy drive, ect. The main purpose of my original post, was to make sure those who are getting into the scene understand that OWM should not be purchased as a replacement of a NWM, but should rather be purchased for smaller more specific tasks. I dream of one day having four G5 processors in my OWM, while having three external SCSI (moded 9600 case) cases connected to it. Will it happed? Probably not. Mike PS. Has anyone purchased the Sonnet G4 700mhz Upgrade? |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 1:45 PM |
paul_findley |
. |
One more thing, webmaster814. You'd have to be nuts to go shopping with your list. Just some exampes: A Microsoft optical USB mouse on sale, that is one-fifth the cost of that useless, single-button Apple Pro Mouse. An IOGEAR USB 2.0 card $10 after rebate, OWC firewire card $15, VIA chipset combo card (better than Orange) on ebay $50 easily by auction, no reason at all for a USB keyboard because these are ADB machines, usually pre-existing with ADB keyboards already there, . . . |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 1:34 PM |
paul_findley |
. |
One rationalization I use is that some of the stuff I buy for the OWM will be reusable on the NWM when I buy one. Things like my firewire drive, and Ultra2 LVD SCSI card (only $29 from OWC), and those fast LVD SCSI drives (dirt cheap these days, though not from OWC). I do find it amusing that some people are getting all worked up about this. webmaster814 posted a useful devil's advocate position. It is always good to question and re-examine. I'm with ejimp. It is tinkering as a hobby for most of us. It is economically viable for some like fixitjc with large investments in old world machines and networks. And it is probably outright uninformed foolishness for a very few (like those who pay more than list price on ebay). |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 1:24 PM |
marcush |
. |
Webmaster814, I think what the concensus here is leading up to is that your comments are neither helpful or wanted. We are tinkering with these old machines for various reasons and that is enough. We know what's out there but we still enjoy our oldworld machines. I also would dispute your claims of low performance. Of course, oldworld machines are not going to be as fast as the latest and greatest. The question I ask is do I need the latest and greatest yet? No, I don't. I run Final Cut Pro 3 with Real-time effects, DVD Studio Pro 1.5, Photoshop 7, and Illustrator 10 on my old Power Tower Pro with G4/800. So I have to leave the machine on for renders overnight. That's fine. I'm still playing games too. I get between 40-50 FPS in Quake 3. I also play Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Alice, and STV: Elite Force. They play well and not much differently than in OS 9.x. They major difference is that if the game crashes it does not bring down the whole system. So, if you don't want to contribute anything useful regarding troubleshooting oldworld Macs then please don't say anything. We are not interested in your iBook. I have one too but it is not relevant to anything discussed in these forums. For the record, though I like the iBook quite a bit, my Power Tower Pro is still my preferred machine. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 1:17 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
If, you can not handle a simple conversation without getting all worked up I still feel sorry for you. Yes, I have realized that this forum is about using X, and if I could get my money refunded from this forum, I would do so without a second thought. Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 1:06 PM |
fixitjc |
. |
Hate is much to wasteful an emotion , irritation such as you might feel towards an annoying fly would be more appropriate. Time to chase the fly is over time for some real work. Tho you did provide some entertainment. Knowing the general purpose of this forum why would make such a bizarre statement as: “No, I am just letting you know that if you do not migrate to X someother person will, and you will be out of the job.� Have you not figured out yet that this forum is about using OSX? Aim low Sheriff they’re ridding ponies. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 12:29 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
By the way, you are getting all to excited over this. Take a step back, breath, and then speak. Rants are no way to post, neither is becomming infureated over another person's post. Someone who consumed with as much hate in your life, I feel sorry for you. Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 12:26 PM |
webmaster814 |
. |
No, I am just letting you know that if you do not migrate to X someother person will, and you will be out of the job. Mike |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 11:37 AM |
fixitjc |
. |
Unlike some people I don't have the time to waste making silly lists but to answer your question... a whole network, several CPU's, scanners, printers etc that are not compat. with NW environment. Called planned obsolesence.......lets change the OS, (and prevent you from installing it on your OW machine) change or eliminate interfaces, and no longer support or update drivers for anything over..... lets say.... pick a number..... 4 years no ..... make that 3 years old and force our customers to completely replace their equipment. Oh yes lets remember proclaming the old OS "dead" to ensure that no new software or updates will be released. Makes good business sense but really t's me and others off. And then to have some... get on this forum and tell me that I am a fool for not just junking what I have taken years to build up and run out and blow a bunch of money just to satisfy his view of what everyone should do. Tell you what, you send me the money and I will replace it. |
. |
RE: How Much Does an Old World Machine Really Cost |
November, 10, 2002 9:05 AM |
webmaster814 |
. |
By the way, what do you have that adds up to 10,000 - 20,000 that could not be switched over to a Newer Mac? Mike |