. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 17, 2003 7:17 AM |
gabb |
. |
ok under system profile there r three USB cards showing up and here is what it says: card type not available card name pci14db,35 card model not available vendor ID 1033 device ID 35 ROM # not available Revision 41 two of them say the same thing and the other is a little different both under 9.x and 10.x but still not working under 9.x Gabb |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 17, 2003 12:17 AM |
gabb |
. |
Voxx and nick, I just purchased another SIIG usb 2.0 card and I still have the same problem, no show under 9.x. As nick said I did take down the info frm 10.x, i.e. vendor, id etc. what do i do next? Go back to 9.x and then? maybe use the DDK 1.5 to put the info in? Voxx, keyspan doesn't have any separate driver for 9.X, it just works. I will try to hack and see if it works for the last time then i am definitely getting a USB 1.1 card. Generic Firewire cards should work. I am currectly using a generic Fire wire card made for PCs. Someone said generic one don't with i-pods, i don't know about that but it woks great with video capture i have no i-pods to test it. Voxx stick with FW instead of USB. keep me posted gabb |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 17, 2003 12:06 AM |
nick.ashton |
. |
Yes, your card does seem closer to working with the 9.2.1 USB extensions installed. Unfortunately I think part of the USB support is incorporated in the kernel so just adding the 9.2 extension to a 9.1 system may not be enough. Could you run Apple System Profiler under OS X so I can see if the card really does declare multiple devices - ASP under OS 9 misreports some cards, even ones that do work. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 8:31 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Very interesting. I use Mac OS 9.1 here. I can't force upgrade to 9.2.2 due to an incompatibility with the Pro Tools version I use. Fact is, that I opened the Mac OS 9.2.1 installer with Tome Viewer and extracted the USB drivers from it. Still not working, but Apple System Profiler shows different now. (in time: the "third" E2 slot was reported as "PCI Slot", not "USB Card as I described below). This is the USB error log form ASP now: 48.677: Expert - Initializing disk based USB Expert 1.5.5 49.713: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.284: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.284: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 51.310: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 51.841: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 51.841: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 52.336: [ 0]: Expert - LoadPlugin: FindDriverCandidates failed. -43 52.336: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -43 52.337: [ 0]: Expert - Couldn't find any USB Controllers/UIMS!!! 0 54.193: [ 0]: Expert - Could not find Native Power Manager Lib 0 -------------------------------- And this is what Apple System Profiler shows now ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 USB Card Card Type: usb Card Name: pci1033,1735 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 65 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 (again) USB Card Card Type: usb Card Name: pci1033,1033 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 65 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 (again again - this may be the EHCI part) USB Card (was "PCI Slot" before) Card Type: usb (was "not available" before) Card Name: pci1735,e0 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 2 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ Hmmmm..... |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 5:38 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
By the way, anyone could be kind enough to e-mail me the Keyspan drivers to make a test? |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 5:22 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
p.s/: why this thread insist to garble what I carefully paste? |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 5:20 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Hey Nick, Quite interesting... the USB 2.0 card appears three times in the PCI slots - as if the machine has 8 PCI slots (slot E2 appears three times) - someone told me that's because the card has a triple-controller chip (2x OHCI, one EHCI). This makes a certain sense, I already saw something like this in documentation I read. Anyway, ASP says: ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 USB Card Card Type: usb Card Name: pci1033,1735 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 65 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 (again) USB Card Card Type: usb Card Name: pci1033,1033 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 65 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ PCI Slot E2 (again again - this may be the EHCI part) USB Card Card Type: not available Card Name: pci1735,e0 Card model: Not available Card ROM#: Not available Card revision: 2 Card vendor ID: 1033 ______________________________ The APS's USB log I pasted here appeared garbled, so I'm pasting again: 48.555: Expert - Initializing disk based USB Expert 1.4.6 49.532: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.058: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.058: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 51.060: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 51.562: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 51.562: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 51.563: [ 0]: Expert - Couldn't find any USB Controllers/UIMS!!! 0 53.317: [ 0]: Expert - Could not find Native Power Manager Lib 0 126.576: [ 0]: USL - setting status to level 3 No new USB events have occurred. __________________________________ Any thoughts? |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 3:22 PM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
. |
Just installed an OrangeLink+ combo firewire/USB 2.0 card in my 9500. All three USB 1.1 ports are working but neither of the two firewire ports work with my son's iPod. There are no firewire drivers to install. The only driver update available 3.1.2 for USB 2.0. Has anyone else had trouble getting the firewire ports to work? |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 2:06 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Gabb, Thanks for the suggestion. Anyway, do you know if "generic" firewire cards work? Or will I have another USB-type headache...? Nick, Hey, this sounds promising...! Unfortnately I'm not in the US, so it's not so easy to find specific brands of Mac-related products (when I find, it's way too expensive). But your idea of hacking the driver may work, I guess. I will re-open my 9600 tonight (just can't do right now) and re-insert the NEC card and get its parameters. Meanwhile, here's the error that Apple System Profiler gave me about the Nec card (altough it appears in the PCI slot as "USB card"): 48.693: Expert - Initializing disk based USB Expert 1.4.6 49.782: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.375: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 50.375: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 51.483: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 52.048: [ 0]: Expert - USBInitializeUIM: Error Returned From UIM Initialization Function. -2539 52.048: [ 0]: Expert - LoadUIM: LoadOrReplacePlugin failed! -2539 52.049: [ 0]: Expert - Couldn't find any USB Controllers/UIMS!!! 0 53.823: [ 0]: Expert - Could not find Native Power Manager Lib 0 128.926: [ 0]: USL - setting status to level 3 |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 12:56 PM |
nick.ashton |
. |
It could be that the PCI identity on your unbranded card is simply not recognised by the OS 9 drivers. It might be possible to edit the OS 9 drivers to add recognition for your particular card. In Orange's OS X driver there are 80 (yes eighty!) different PCI idents listed, against which the driver will match. It's perfectly possible that Apple's OS9 driver which has been around for a long time simply doesn't contain the appropriate references. Run Apple System Profiler in OS X and note down the Card Name, Vendor ID and Device ID for your USB2 card. Report back and I'll have a look at the OS 9 drivers and see if something can be done. Otherwise, purchasing a branded card e.g. Orange or Sonnet might be the best solution - buy one on the basis that you can return it in case there is some other factor affecting its operation in OS 9. It's always possible that there is an extension conflict or something else in OS9 which is causing the problem. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 12:19 PM |
gabb |
. |
Voxx, I know Keyspan cards will work, they are machine specific, meaning they were made to work with older machines as well as new ones, as oppose to other cards saying that it will work with OS 9.x and 10.X Keyspan cards r a little pricy ($32), check it online. I would probably suggest going with Firewire, even though USB 2.0 is technically faster, Firewire is a true bus connection meaning it transfers data directly as opposed to going through the processor...something like that. I am going back to USB 1.1and that is fine with me. good luck. gabb |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 16, 2003 3:40 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Hey Nick, As Gabb predicted, my NEC USB 2.0 card was no go in OS9. However, the 3.1.2 driver really made it work flawlessly with my external HD. It was really fast. But I still use OS9 to work, so I gave up on the NEC card for now (unless someone tells me how to use it in OS9) and stuck (or got stuck) with the USB 1.1 card for the moment. If at least I could make the NEC card work as USB 1.1 in OS9... every documentation says it's comptible and perfectly possible! |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 14, 2003 9:37 PM |
nick.ashton |
. |
My suggestion would be to wait for 10.2.7 - Apple use the NEC chips in their own USB2 implementation so hopefully the built-in drivers will be up to the job. Failing that I'd seriously consider changing your USB2 external enclosure for a Firewire/USB2 combo version. That way you have two opportunities for things to go horribly wrong! Seriously though, I have a Firewire/USB1 external drive (LaCie) that works flawlessly on the Firewire interface at speeds far higher than my built-in SCSI drives and without all the audio failure problems reported by users of ATA and ultra-wide SCSI controllers. Of course some contributors to this forum think Firewire is the worst thing since sliced bread but I think it's your only option if you want comparable access speeds under both OS 9 and OS X on an external disk. OWC do some reasonably priced enclosures (no that is not a free advertisement since I haven't forgiven them for refusing to provide a search facility on this forum) as do many other suppliers. I use a Sonnet Tango Firewire/USB1 combo card in my 8600 - Sonnet now sell a Firewire/USB2 card called the Tango 2.0 (such imaginative product names they come up with) which might be of interest since you're short of free slots. If you want to do me a real favour you'll buy the SIIG JU-2NE012 which implements Firewire (TI chipset), USB2 (NEC chipset) and 10/100 Ethernet (Realtek chipset) on a single card. I'm tempted to buy one to free up a slot on my 8600 but I'm too stingy to risk the money (~$80) not knowing if it will work. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 14, 2003 2:42 PM |
gabb |
. |
Voxx, Sorry that i am frightening u. Its a little crazy, I mean many ppl have been able to work the USB 2.0 card under both OS but not me. The card is not even reconnized under 9.X. Another Forum persom Marcush said his Ratoc combo card (FW/ USB 2.0) worls flawlessly so... I don't know.. he has very similar specs as mine (PTP w/ Sonnet crescendo 800 Mhz G4 etc. etc.) its really strange. Try re- arranging the USB card plcmnt. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 14, 2003 12:40 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
OK folks, thanks for the help so far. Nick, the 3.1.2 driver appeared to work, altough I had a very ugly crash playing 24 tracks of audio in Cubase SX. Still trying to figure this out. OS 9, still no go, not even in 1.1 compatibility mode. Any clue? (Gabb, you're frightening me...:-0) |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 11:39 PM |
gabb |
. |
I have tried all kinds of USB 2.0 card to work on both OS X and 9.2 10.2.6: I had no problems and no driver was needed, unfortunately under 9.2... no luck, these cards r not even recognized. I have all kinds of drives etc. the Macally combo card did work but i was having many crashes while trying to use the FW part to capture video so i took it back. I know under 9.2 we won't get USB 2.0 speed but most of these cards didn't work (well none except Macally). I have decided to go back to USB 1.1 so it works under both OS. Gabby |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 7:06 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Hey Nick, Hmmm... ther must be something about my USB card, then - it's NEC chipped, USB 2.0, dual OHCI/EHCI, and no go both in OSX and OS9. USB 1.1 in OS9 is acceptable, as long as I can use 2.0 in OSX. Actually, the OSX Disk Utility can see the HD with the USB 2.0 bus, but something makes it freeze (it un-freezes at USB HD power down). Have you heard of any success of OPTi chipped USB-2 cards? Or should I try another NEC card? (still didn't try the 3.1.2 driver, but will post the result here soon). |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 2:36 PM |
nick.ashton |
. |
The NEC chipped cards should work at USB 1.1 speeds in OS 9 without additional drivers. There are no drivers I know of to run at USB 2.0 speeds in OS 9. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 1:52 PM |
voxxdigital |
. |
Hey Nick, thanks, I'll give it a shot. I forgot to mention, I'm using a 40GB Maxtor IDE hard drive on an external ATA/ATAPI-to-USB 2.0 enclosure, and the cable is USB 2.0 certified. (I believe the cable itself have something to do with the bridge). Any ideas for OS9? The problem is that I have only one slot avaliable for an USB card, so it must work in both OSes... |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 1:24 PM |
nick.ashton |
. |
All the drivers that I could find on the web were copies (mostly unacknowledged) of Orange Micro's driver, and many were out of date copies at that. This driver supports the NEC chipset. Here's the VersionTracker link page to the latest driver which also lists users comments on the problems they have encountered. http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11183 If the NEC drivers you used weren't the latest it might be worth giving your existing card another go with the V3.1.2 drivers at the above link. Also, USB 2.0 speeds require higher spec interconnect cables than USB 1.1 so old cables may not be up to it. Couldn't find any OS X drivers for other chipsets and several card manufacturers (e.g. Keyspan and Ratoc) rather misleadingly state that drivers for their cards are not required for OSX without telling users that the cards will only work at USB 1.1 speeds without them. Actually here's a useful test you could run - install your 5 port card without the additional drivers and see if it works at USB 1.1 speeds. If it runs but unreliably then the card is probably no good. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 11:53 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
both, typo... |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 11:51 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
p.s. - with USB 1.1 (that chap card), IDE devices works fine and dandy, bith in OSX and OS9. Just slow like a drunk slug. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 11:44 AM |
voxxdigital |
. |
OK, here's the situation: I'm trying to make an IDE hard drive to work here. I have a PM9600 with Sonnet G3/400 running OS 9.1 & 10.2.6. I actually made it work with a cheap PC USB 1.1 card (2-port, OPTi chipset) - it really works, including ATAPI devices such as an IDE CD- ROM I used to test. I almost ripped off my hair to find the proper drivers, I downloaded around 20 different drivers, including OS9, OSX OHCI and EHCI (USB-2). I also tried an USB-2 card (5-port, NEC chipset) - I also found specific NEC USB drivers for OSX, but no go. I even achieved to mount the IDE HD I formatted with the USB-1, but when I try to copy anything, it freezes (must power off the HD to go back to normal). I heard of certain USB cards that will work EHCI (USB-2) on OSX and OHCI (USB-1.1) in OS9, that would be good enough for me. I can't look for specific brands in here, but the chipset would be the most important. Any ideas? Thanks. |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 7:27 AM |
nick.ashton |
. |
Some manufacturers (e.g. Macally, Orange Micro and Sonnet) provide USB 2.0 drivers for OSX. Although drivers are not currently built-in they will be included when 10.2.7 is released to support the new G5's. Since many cards use the same chips you may find that the drivers provided by one manufacturer will work for other cards as well. The Orange Micro ones seem to work with a variety of other cards and even enable built-in USB2 on the latest G4's (Apple used a USB2 capable chip but for political/ marketing reasons chose not to enable the feature). |
. |
RE: USB 2.0 both in Mac OS X and OS 9, anyone? |
July, 13, 2003 2:33 AM |
ivanxqz |
. |
I thought that OS X includes the EHCI driver that allows for the 480 Mbps high-speed for USB 2.0, though I don't know from experience. From my understanding there are no EHCI drivers for OS 9 (and Apple has not made the API's available to really make it viable for a third party, nor have they produced one themselves), so under OS 9 a USB 2.0 card would be limited to USB 1.1 speeds (12 Mbps), since it is driven by the OS 9 OHCI driver that is part of the USB package. But I think high speed should work under OS X. I would have no idea about the Classic environment, since if the shim simply routes to the OS X USB driver, and that's using an EHCI driver (if it exists), perhaps you'd get USB 2.0 speeds within Classic. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Ivan. |
|
|