. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
October, 01, 2002 1:39 AM |
avaughs |
. |
gx77, can you tell me how you installed OS 10.2? Did you... a) install 10.0 then upgrade to 10.2 b) install 10.0, upgrade to 10.0.0 then upgrade to 10.2 c) install 10.0, upgrade to 10.0.1-4, upgrade to 10.1.1-5 then upgrade to 10.2 I installed 10.2 by way of 10.0.4 and 10.1.5 and had no problems on my PMac 7500 with a G3 card and no interleaved RAM. I installed 10.2 directly from 10.0 on to my PMac 9600 with a G4 card and interleaved RAM. I experienced my first OS X crash (ever). Could be due to the RAM, however. I encountered the crash just after IE launched (5.1 version according to the splash screen) while it was loading the livepage.apple.com site. How about you folks who don't experience crashes. Is your RAM interleaved, and what was the install and upgrade path you took to arrive at 10.2? |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 11:27 PM |
gshuh |
. |
A couple of things about your config caught my eye: (1) your hard drive, which likely gets hot (if it is a DCHS-04-style drive) and (2) your memory config, which probably occupies 6-8 slots. (1) To exclude a cryptic corrupt install: Do you get random freezes when running off the Jaguar Install CD? (2) Is all of your 608MB RAM 60 ns or faster, and is any of it interleaved? De-interleaving DIMMs is also recommended on xlr8yourmac.com for G3/G4 upgrades of PCI Powermacs. Hope this helps. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 8:43 PM |
kbata |
. |
When you freeze do you get a spinning rainbow or does the pointer just sit in one spot or is it a KP? |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 7:43 PM |
rdemby |
. |
I have a Apple extended ADB keyboard, a Kensington ADB Turbo mouse and a Kensington wireless USB Turbo Mouse Pro. And I use Netscape 7, IE 5.2.2 . They both exhibit the same flaky behavior. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 7:31 PM |
kbata |
. |
As a general rule I don't think many people with old world Macs are experiencing constant freezes. I have had similar problems with Itunes stuttering but it is never enough to freeze the system. At worst I loose my sound until restart. It must be either a hardware or software problem. Unless it's the same program that's causing you trouble the easiest thing to check is after market additions. If your having trouble with IE than try another browser. One thing the two of you have in common is an external Firewire drive. GX77, are your crashes random in nature or is there something specific that you do that seems to cause the problems. One other question. Do you use a USB keyboard and mouse or the standard ADB setup? |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 4:57 PM |
rdemby |
. |
I tend to agree with gx77 about the ethernet card not being the problem. I leave my machine running all day and night while sharing my internet connection via Vicomsoft Internet Gateway. When I come home in the evening all is well and the connection has been maintained all day. I will get my mail and do some graphic work and jam itunes. The freeze generally comes with specific web pages being loaded. ( This *forum* is a favorite of the freeze ). itunes will start to stutter and and hard restart to 9 is required to boot back up and then I use xpf to reboot into X. Never happened with 10.1.5 I really like the features of 10.2 but the freezes are offputting to say the least. But I still have one other thing to check. All of my memory are OWC 128mb except for two 64mb I bought four years ago. I will let you know. 7300/SonnetG4/400 896Mb Tango FW/USB PCI Radeon Mac Edition PCI Farallon 10/100 Ethernet PCI Teac 512EB FW CD-RW ClubMac 40GB FW Ext. Apple 1.2GB SCSI Ext. IBM 9GB Int. ( 9.2.2 Disk ) Quantum Atlas IV 36.4GB Int.( OS X Disk ) USB 100mb Zip SP 785 EPX SP 700 ( USB to Parallel ) Works under CUPS Kensington Wireless Trackball Wacom Serial Tablet GV Serial Modem Astra 2400s SCSI Scanner |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 2:27 PM |
gx77 |
. |
well, i've got my user folders on my firewire drive, so i think i'll be taking out the ethernet card first. I'm hesitant to think that that's whats causing the problem though, cause it doesn't do anything most of the time. as always, i'll report back with any successes or failures. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 1:50 PM |
kbata |
. |
If the problem you are having is hardware related the ethernet card is a posable suspect. If you remove it and your freeze problems go away than you can bet it was a problem with the driver for that card. Most of the thing you have listed I have tried on my computers with no problems. I have heard of people having some problems with Firewire drives also. Since you have an 8500 and it's hard to get inside you may want to try disconnecting this before moving on to the Ethernet card. My thought is that you should try removing hardware extras until the freezing stops. Then once you have isolated what is causing the problem than you can go about finding updated drivers or patches to fix the problem. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 11:53 AM |
gx77 |
. |
why would the 10/100 card be a problem? It worked fine under 10.1.5, and i only use it to share my internet connection (although this doesn't work yet, so i've got sharing turned off most of the time anyway) I've got X on the IBM drive- it's the only SCSI that's big enough for it. The quantum is only 1.2 gig, and the IBM is 4.5 gig. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 8:54 AM |
kbata |
. |
The 10/100 card could be a problem. Have you tried removing that card to see if it has an affect on the problem? What drive do you have OS X installed on? |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 8:19 AM |
gx77 |
. |
sorry, one more correction: the lines: OrangeMicro USB/Firewire card (intel?) 10/100 Ethernet PCI card should read: OrangeMicro USB/Firewire card (intel?)10/100 Ethernet PCI card |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 8:18 AM |
gx77 |
. |
(here is the same post as below, but with an extra [return] in between the lines to make it readable) I removed the motherboard l2 cache... I have an 8500, upgraded with a Sonnet G4/400. 608 MB ram ATI Rage Orion OrangeMicro USB/Firewire card (intel?) 10/100 Ethernet PCI card OWC Mercury Firewire 45GB external Stock Quantum Fireball 1280S IBM Deskstar DCH04SU 4.5GB (i'm going from memory on the model #) External AComData 12x10x32 SCSI CDRW External Iomega Zip! 100 SCSI Epson Stylus 785EPX Epson Perfection Photo 1650 I think that's it... I'm running 10.2.1, to make it totally clear. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 30, 2002 8:13 AM |
gx77 |
. |
I removed the motherboard l2 cache... I have an 8500, upgraded with a Sonnet G4/400. 608 MB ram ATI Rage Orion OrangeMicro USB/Firewire card (intel?) 10/100 Ethernet PCI card OWC Mercury Firewire 45GB external Stock Quantum Fireball 1280S IBM Deskstar DCH04SU 4.5GB (i'm going from memory on the model #) External AComData 12x10x32 SCSI CDRW External Iomega Zip! 100 SCSI Epson Stylus 785EPX Epson Perfection Photo 1650 I think that's it... I'm running 10.2.1, to make it totally clear. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 29, 2002 7:04 PM |
kbata |
. |
10.2.1 has been stable for me. No freeze ups, no KP's. What is your full setup including upgrade card, PCI cards, and hard drives? |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 29, 2002 5:48 PM |
gshuh |
. |
Are you running an 8500 with an upgraded G3 or G4 CPU? If so, then the 256KB L2 cache chip (on the main logic board) should be removed, if you haven't done so already. The CPU card already should have L2, and everything I've read on xlr8yourmac.com recommends removing the old L2 cache chip. Hope this helps. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 29, 2002 2:07 PM |
gx77 |
. |
now it's locking up every time i visit this forum, so i'm on my windows XP laptop typing this... my computer is totally useless now. Just a huge, expensive paperweight. I think i restarted it 10+ times yesterday... some stable OS. I tried switching to write back mode, but that didn't help at all. The only thing i can count on is that it's gonna freeze. I can't really predict when, unless it's visiting this forum. I'll try disabling the l2 cache, but after that, i'm out of things to try other than setting the thing on fire. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 11:46 PM |
OSXGuru |
. |
Yes, that's correct--you are either in write-through mode or write-back mode. The difference is how soon main memory gets updated when a value in the L2 cache is changed. In "write-through" mode, the main memory gets updated immediately. In "write-back" mode, the main memory gets updated at a later time (presumably before the value gets evicted from the L2 cache, or else ...). |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 10:29 PM |
earlyd416 |
. |
10.2 is freezing for me, too. I tried Ryan's suggestions for checking memory and found a suspect module. But, I'll try Ryan's suggestions about the adjusting the other parameters, too. BTW, my Powerlogix Cache Control X 1.2 only has a Write-Through button - no Write Back. Is Write Back the opposite of Write-Through? --Dwight |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 6:09 PM |
timjudym |
. |
I have had 10.2 installed for several days, and while i used to get several freezes a week in 10.1.5, I have only had one freeze in 10.2 and that was trying to lock my keychain in a beta version of interarchy 6, so i am going to attribute that to interarchy. Jaguar seems more stable than 10.1.5. |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 3:46 PM |
OSXGuru |
. |
You're quite right that it won't log errors once it is frozen. But sometimes there can be patterns in the logs leading up to the freeze that are useful. The warnings about Entourage are probably not related to the freeze. When Apple plans to remove certain functions from the Cocoa or Carbon APIs, it will sometimes make them issue warnings to help developers see the changes that will be necessary. But this should not generally cause freezes to occur. Aside from memory, the other thing you might check is the L2 cache settings. You could switch from "write-thru" mode to "write-back" (or vice versa) to see if that makes a difference. Or you could lower the cache speed a notch. Or you could simply disable the L2 cache for a while and see whether that improves stability. (You wouldn't want to leave it that way permanently, but it would be a useful clue). Or you could fiddle with the bus speed or CPU speed, to see if that helps (assuming it is adjustable). |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 12:30 PM |
gx77 |
. |
I've had three freezes already this morning. this is getting rediculous- the computer is virtually worthless... the last time it froze, i noted the exact time. I looked in the system.log file for anything around that time, but i didn't see anything. is there another log file i should be looking at? I'm thinking it's not going to log anything, cause the computer freezes up. how would it log any errors if it's frozen??? I read something on xlr8yourmac.com's forums that said having more than two sticks of ram in 10.2.1 was causing problems for people, but that apple knew about it and was trying to fix it... don't know if this applies to our problem though... |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 11:11 AM |
gx77 |
. |
ryan- are you good at deciphering the logs? I don't know what half of this garbage means. it makes sense to me, but i don't know if it's significant or not... |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 11:09 AM |
gx77 |
. |
I looked at the system.log files, and it seems that entourage could be one of the culprits... a few of the freezes/restarts had code like this around them: [tt] Sep 27 11:51:17 loudgazelle /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Microsoft Entourage: *** Warning: Line option kATSLineIsDisplayOnly has been deprecated. *** Sep 27 11:51:17 loudgazelle /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Microsoft Entourage: *** Warning: ATSUMeasureText has been deprecated. Use ATSUGetUnjustifiedBounds instead. *** Sep 27 11:51:27 loudgazelle WindowServer[494]: CGXDisableUpdate: Updates disabled by connection 0x97a7 for over 1.000000 seconds Sep 27 11:51:39 loudgazelle last message repeated 2 times Sep 27 11:53:38 loudgazelle WindowServer[494]: CGXDisableUpdate: Updates disabled by connection 0x97a7 for over 1.000000 seconds Sep 27 12:48:37 loudgazelle /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Microsoft Entourage: *** Warning: Line option kATSLineIsDisplayOnly has been deprecated. *** Sep 27 12:48:37 loudgazelle /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Microsoft Entourage: *** Warning: ATSUMeasureText has been deprecated. Use ATSUGetUnjustifiedBounds instead. *** Sep 27 12:48:46 loudgazelle WindowServer[494]: CGXDisableUpdate: Updates disabled by connection 0xab83 for over 1.000000 seconds Sep 27 12:49:18 loudgazelle last message repeated 4 times Sep 27 13:16:08 loudgazelle WindowServer[494]: CGXDisableUpdate: Updates disabled by connection 0xab83 for over 1.000000 seconds Sep 27 13:29:41 loudgazelle syslogd: restart Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: EXT: Getting L2CR Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: Detecting L2CR type Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: Registering sysctl handlers Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: PowerLogix Kernel Extension finished loading Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: PowerLogixL2CR changed to 0xB9280000 Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: PowerLogixHID0 changed to 0x8014C0A4 Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mach_kernel: PLKEXT: PowerLogixHID0 changed to 0x8014C22C Sep 27 13:29:42 loudgazelle mDNSResponder[275]: mDNSResponder (09/ 13/02 14:15:48) starting [/tt] rdemby- are you running entourage at all? the only thing that makes me think it's not entourage is that it doesn't always have to be running for my computer to freeze... |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 28, 2002 9:24 AM |
rdemby |
. |
I'm experiencing the same random freezes with 10.2. Usually while running a browser. I checked my ram with GURU( It tests okay )and I never had any freezes with 10.1.5 7300/SonnetG4/400 896Mb Tango FW/USB Radeon Mac Edition |
. |
RE: is 10.2 freezing for anyone else? |
September, 27, 2002 5:29 PM |
OSXGuru |
. |
Freezes without an error message of any kind are often due to memory issues. The other thing which occurs to me is that all the applications you mention are networking-related in some way, though I don't know if that is likely to be meaningful or not. It would be worth taking a look at your system log to see if there is anything interesting, especially soon before a crash. It is at: /var/log/system.log |