XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 2:05 AM |
jhfarr |
Go ahead and make fun of me. I wait all this time and finally get around to trying to install OS X (Jaguar) on the 8600 after having done all the right things (?) and all I get when I try to install OS X is a screen full of messages about all the things that can't be found and won't load. Looks like all those kernel extensions, etc. that get moved over to the target volume just can't be accessed by the installer. I want my money back! Oh wait, the software is free. Phooey. John |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 26, 2003 1:49 PM |
frankbendrick |
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I had a similar problem. I was running OS 9.2 on an 8600 with a PowerLogix G3 processor, 480 MB RAM, 3 PCI cards (RAGE 128, Ethernet, and FireWire/ USB), SuperDrive, and 2 monitors. Here's what I did to get OS X installed and running: I installed OS 9.1 in a separate partition (XPF will not run under OS 9.2). I removed the external SCSI bus as well as all the PCI cards. I ran one monitor off the built-in video. With XPF under OS 9.1, I installed OS X 10.2; OS X booted up. I then downloaded the latest OS X PowerLogix cache enabler as well as the OS X RAGE drivers. After installing the downloads on OS X, I put the system back together. OS X has been running fine since. One little glitch -- Since XPF does not run under OS 9.2, you have to boot into and out of OS X with 9.1. Once you are in 9.1 you can reboot into 9.2 but you can't boot directly into or out of 9.2 from OS X. An inconvenience, but hopefullly, only temporary. Hope that helps. Frank |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 22, 2003 7:57 AM |
earlyd416 |
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John, You make some excellent points. I'm not in the biz, so I'm using my 8600 & 9600 to keep the left side of my brain from drying up. After reading all of this, I'm think that all the hardware advise may not all that helpful in your case. Classic 9.2.2 is OK under X, but, since 9.2.2 needs to be patched for Olde World Machines, I'd still recommend using 9.1 Disk Setup to format your hard drive for using XPF to install X. This has worked for me just a month ago when I upgraded my 9600 with a Sonnet G4/800. As I said below, boot off the 9.1 install CD and run the Disk Setup; then boot into 9.2.2 and install X using XPF. As an aside, I have one disk devoted to my 9.1 (production) system. I have a small Classic (9.1) partition on a 9GB drive to work Classic programs while I'm using X. The 2nd partition contains X 10.2.5. This works w/o flaw for me on my 8600. Best of luck. --Dwight |
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Thank you one and all ... |
April, 21, 2003 11:06 PM |
jhfarr |
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Wow! Many excellent suggestions here. I have printed most of them out and may get around to them some day. However, life is short, and one weekend was enough for now. I truly do appreciate your efforts and questions to help me join the OS X club on my 8600, but for the time being this machine is a vital workstation for my Internet activities and I just can't spend the time tracking down all the variables. I do know what I'm doing. I'm also not about to swap drives around or mess with what works *absolutely perfectly* in OS 9.2.2. With a 10,000 rpm drive, this sucker is like greased lightning (no beach balls). I'm not being secretive about any components, I just don't have the patience. Here are the stats on the absolutely bulletproof 8600: • 450MHz G3 • 672MB of RAM • 32MB of VRAM • USB card • 3 SCSI hard drives (9GB 10,000 rpm, 9GB 7,200 rpm, 4.5GB 7,200 rpm) • OS 9.2.2 • external SCSI CD burner • external SCSI Zip drive, etc. etc. This is the fastest and most reliable OS 9 configuration I have ever used. It never crashes. Everything works. There's nothing I can't do that I want to do except -- and this is obviously a HUMONGOUS exception -- test all the cool OS X apps! How I've been able to get away without doing this for so long is a bleeping miracle, but the jig is up. I'm in the business. I have to be hitting the keys seven days a week. I've also been in denial about OS X, which is why I've waited so long to go for the upgrade. I'm glad it works for you, but it doesn't work for me. Mr. Visa and I will just have to load on some more debt and get a new machine. When I have a new OS X Mac for daily use, I'd like to come back and try this all again on the 8600. Setting the beast up as a server might be worth my while: I've had lots of contact with people who've done just that with older Macs and OS X and find it a great way to get the most out of the hardware. (No beach ball freak-outs, either.) Finally, a reality check: Mac hardware and software are about to jump into a whole new realm. I think it's highly likely that the legacy Mac trip with current versions of OS X is about to come to an end. That doesn't mean there won't be lots of these machines performing valuable service running OS X long into the future, of course. It all depends on the roles they'll play. Then again, I might turn out to be full of doodoo-pucky. It wouldn't be the first time. :-) |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 21, 2003 1:30 PM |
marcush |
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I'm thinking the problem you are having is either a termination issue or, more likely, related to whichever of the SCSI busses your drive(s) is/are attached to. Although I did not have this exact problem way back when I first installed OSX 10.1, I think I had a problem that was perhaps similar. If either of my CD or target hard drive were attached to the external bus then the install would fail. One of the drives would lose it's connection to the bus, resulting in a complete stall. Moving both to the internal bus resolved my install issue. Just a thought. |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 21, 2003 9:07 AM |
fixitjc |
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You request responses from only those who have experienced your exact problem, the problem with that is your problem may not be what you believe it is it can be caused by many seamingly unrelated things. I'm not sure what issues have been discussed concerning the 9 gig Seagate drives since I am running 3 0f them on the internal ( fast) bus and another on the external on my 8500/G3 500. One issue you may need to check is your CD drive, this family of machines has occational problems with seemingly good CD drives ( I service several small newspapers and have run into issues with them preventing boot or failing to properly trsf data. These are APPLE drives not aftermarket. They seem to work properly (install some software, play music etc. but there are strange anomilies with the machine some listed above that clear up when you replace the CD drive. I have observed this with 7500's, 8500's 8600's etc the whole family, These drives have mimiced memory problems, installer problems told me I had a bad CD when it installed just fine on several machines the same day. Also your install will probably go better if you use the video on the logic board not the add on. Also some seem to have better luck with installs when they remove all addon boards until after the install. Hope that helps Jim |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 9:42 PM |
egonzales21 |
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Time for me to chime in. I have installed XPF to all kinds of machines to include briefly 7500, 8500, and 9600. I have used 604 processor (10.1 of course), G3 processors, and now G4 processors. I have used the built in video as well as PCI video (Rage Orion and Radeon 7000). In short this can be done. More details are needed. For me, I always use my old base 9.1 system and format any drive I am planning to load X on with Drive Setup 9.1 formatted HFS+. I have used your same Viking 4.5 drive, a Seagate Barracuda 9G, Maxtor 18G U160, and now Seagate 80G ATA 100 drive on a PCI ATA 133 card from Sonnet. Problems almost always appear to come down to basics: Formatting software used, SCSI termination, and the SCSI CD-Rom drive used. You can get 10 to work on a 8600. There are many people on this forum who are willing to help. Ed |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 7:16 PM |
nick.ashton |
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I can't really understand why you're so secretive about what components your system actually contains. Is this classified information or something? We're only asking because it will help the rest of us to help you. Try responding to the requests with facts rather than waffle and we'll probably be able to get to a solution. An 8600 is perfectly capable of running OSX but there are some factors that can be a problem. I have an IBM hard drive which uses a 68-50 pin converter which won't boot OSX when installed in the internal SCSI bus but works fine on the external bus. On the other hand if you just want to post endlessly about the fact that it isn't working then go ahead and we'll just ignore you. |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 6:10 PM |
powderhaus |
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have you tried the Apple software restore trick? were you use apple software restore program and copy your installed disk to a hard drive and then install from that. do a search for Apple software restore and drag the app to your desktop and then drag your OSX CD into it and then (i forgot to say you need to have a free disk and it can not be the one that will have OSX on it) check the box that reformats the drive to the same format as the CD, i tried one other way and it did not work so i had to use this way. then open XPF and tell it to install from the hard drive that you just put the installer CD on. I don't know that you need this because i was getting a can't find root device when i was instaling, but if you have a spare partition around then you could give it a shot, can't hurt. Goodluck, JIm |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 3:14 PM |
earlyd416 |
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John, I have an 8600 with a G4/450 Powerlogix card, gobs of memory & hard disks, and a USB/Firewire card. All work well. I can't remember any tricks I had to do to get XPF working (like standing on your head). I also just recently installed 10.2.5 on my 9600 when I got a Sonnet G4/800 card for it. All when according to plan on the that load. So, me ask you a few things. I assume theQuantum drive is on the internal SCSI buss. Did you format the drive with 9.1 Drive Setup with HFS+ format? (I don't remember exactly, but something sticks in my mind about formating in only 9.1 vs. 9.2.2.) Did you run 9.1 Disk First Aid on the Quantum? (I always do a low format and then test for bad blocks.) If you did this all under 9.2.2., I'd recommend booting from your 9.1 CD and formating the drive all over again. Next, although this probably isn't a big player, I recommend setting the output to your graphics card? (I removed all the video RAM on the motherboard to ensure it started from the graphics card.) Given all I've read here so far, I think it might be the drive formating method. But, I'm kinda reaching because I'm not there with you. Hope this helps. --Dwight |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 3:01 PM |
joevt |
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You didn't say what video card you're using. Try installing Jaguar with your monitor connected to the built in video. Once it's installed, you can try the video card. The PatchedSCSI... extensions that XPostFacto installs are not for Jaguar and can be removed later. You can get rid of AppleCurio if you don't use the external SCSI bus. That will shorten the number of warnings in versbose mode but for now, just leave them there until you successfully install Jaguar. |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 2:32 PM |
jhfarr |
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The target volume meets all the requirements, everything SCSI shipshape. The video card, etc. all should be no problem according to Ryan's long-published information. Everything is as it should be, supposedly, although obviously *something* is not, hoho. I really appreciate the questions, but unless one of you has experienced the exact same problem, i.e. the installer not being able to find the copied kernel extensions and Ryan's patches, then we're just shooting in the dark. If your installation went swimmingly, well ... I read one thread where someone said OS X 10.2 didn't like Seagate 9 giggers, which was the drive I had originally prepared for OS X, so I even changed THAT: same problem, the installer can't find all those necessary files. Something isn't where it's supposed to be. |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 1:35 PM |
nick.ashton |
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You say you have 32MB of VRAM - what graphics card are you using? It's certainly not the built-in video! That may be part of the problem. Also what other PCI cards do you have installed? However, it sounds like your selected HD may be the problem. Is it connected to the internal or external SCSI bus? Have you double checked your SCSI bus termination? Is it a true 50-pin SCSI drive or a 68-pin or 80-pin with an adapter? |
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RE: Meant to Add ... |
April, 20, 2003 12:36 PM |
jhfarr |
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... that I'm sure you're right, that XPF isn't the problem. I mean, it works for thousands of users, right? There's also must be something peculiar with the way my 8600 is set up that just doesn't work with it. Either that or I'm ignoring the most obvious intermediate step. Quite likely. I'm just pissed and about to add to my five-figure Visa bill by just getting a new machine. At least that one will run Panther. Uh, we hope. |
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RE: XPostFacto Just Plain Won't Work (8600) |
April, 20, 2003 11:11 AM |
jhfarr |
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[sigh] Gentlemen, if my post didn't constitute "help getting it to work," I don't know what does. Where is your sense of irony? :-) Be that as it may, my original post was predicated on the assumption that everyone here just naturally knows I'm a bleeping semi-expert. I've been preparing for this for 18 months. My 8600 has a 450MHz G3 update, 672MB of RAM, 32MB of VRAM, QT 6 Pro, three hard drives, and the kitchen sink. The whole shebang is running on 9.2.2. I've been reading Ryan's work since he first started here at OWC. I've been studying all the related issues for months. I know OS X won't install on anything but an Apple-formatted drive, etc. etc. I have a perfectly fine empty Quantum Viking drive, 4.5 GB, formatted with Apple's Drive Setup. I have Jaguar. I fire up XPF, select Jaguar disc #1 to boot from, my empty drive as the target volume, and hit "install." The kernel extensions, etc. are dutifully copied to the target volume and the 8600 tries to boot into OS X. I get the black screen with the white text, then a long series of messages telling me that none of those transferred extensions and patches can be loaded. After that it sits there and doesn't do anything until I give it the three-fingered salute with option key down and get back to OS 9. I've tried endless variations on this and get exactly the same block of white text every time. It looks like the OS X on the Jaguar install disc just isn't reading the copied bits and pieces. I'm sure there's a solution. I'm also sure that the writing is on the wall for these heroic efforts, i.e. that getting Panther to run on our ancient warhorses will require more than the work of one lone programmer, alas, but I still want to have the Jaguar experience on the 8600 for a few months, at least. Any ideas? |
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Sure it will |
April, 20, 2003 7:25 AM |
naturist |
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I've a 7500 (same motherboard) and it works fine on my machine. I understand your frustration, but since you have not asked for help getting it to work, I'll merely second geoffw's observation than the stock 604 processor is known to be useless for 10.2, although 10.1.5 works fine, if slowly. |
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RE: 10.2 Just Plain Won't Work on an 8600... |
April, 20, 2003 3:12 AM |
geoffw |
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I think that your problem is that you're trying to install 10.2, Jaguar. 10.2 requires a G3 processor, and so, if your 8600 doesn't have a G3 or G4 processor upgrade, you can't do it. However, you should be able to install 10.0 or 10.1. IOW, XPF isn't the problem... :) |
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