Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
July, 24, 2003 4:15 PM |
billbohughes |
First off, YET another XPost Facto Newbie. I want opinions on how to make this as painless as possible because I know that I have "some certain, PROBLEMATIC gear". One of those being the occurs-ed Adaptec AHA-2930 SCSI card, maybe 2 (original 16MB) RAM Sticks* and/or a ATTO UL2D. So, here's my setup PPC 9500 w/XLR8MACH_Carrier G3/500 (stock setting, though ASP says 556MHz) 544MB's of RAM as: A3= 16MB* B3= 16MB* A4= 64MB B4= 64MB A5= 128MB B5= 128MB A6= 64MB B6= 64MB Now my drive setup: SCSI Bus 0 (Mac's internal 10MBps SCSI-2) Apple/MATSHITA 4.0i, CR-8005A @ ID#3 (Terminated) SCSI Bus 2 (connected Externaly to the Adaptec2930) ID#0 ST19171N_9GB Barracuda(Terminated) ID#1 ST19101N_9GB Cheetah ID#2 XP34550S_4gb Quantam, with 6x620MB partitions SCSI Bus 3 ID#0 ST318203LW_18GB ID#8 DDRS-39130D_9GB Terminated by the stock ATTO 68pin Cable (installed Internaly, which is Bus 2 on this card) PCI Slot configuration: A1= Adaptec 2930 ROM#= 4.0b4(wrapper) B1= ATY,Rage6 ROM#113-77702-106 C1= pci11af,ee40 (Digidesign AMIII) D2= ATTO,ExpressPCIProUL2 ROM#= 1.4.3f1 E2= ATY,mach64 ROM#= 113-32900-104 This all works wonderful in 0S 9.1, but I know that it may not get along well with 10.1 (just received today from OWC's email_list specials). I really would like to know whether I should use 2 or 3 Partitions on the 18GB Cheetah, as I'd like for it to be my main drive. I 'MAY' have to disconnect the Quantam Fireball and hook it and the 18GB Cheetah internaly to install, but I would rather just get away with leaving the Cheetah and Ultrastar on the ATTO card. I haven't even really seen anyone use OS-X, so, what's the experience with partitions? I personaly think that splitting up three ways 'would be wisest', but as long as I have a "untouchable OS9.1" partition, I could probably live with Classic and X living together. My biggest concern right now, is the CD_ROM drive. It has given me constant "kernel panic: Double DMA! start" errors when trying to install YDL 2.3 a few weeks ago. I know that's a whole other bag of potatoes, but it's concern that makes me somewhat jittery about the OS-X install. I got the ATTO and 18GB Cheetah this june (my b-day present to myself) and that was "...the upgrade that made me want to do it". One question, what's "throttle" for? I appreciate any/all input, even if it involves moving around RAM and PCI cards :p TIA Bill Hughes |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
August, 01, 2003 12:30 PM |
jseibyl |
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I assume your Matshita boots an OS 9 disk?? Mine didn't, but a Sony from another 8500 I had did. OSX DID NOT install from my Matshita drive, it DID from the Sony. Take it nice and slow, and remove any non-essential PCI cards if you don't need them for drives, video, etc. Once you get a good install, and you will if you are methodical, add the peripherals one at a time and see what happens. The three partition strategy mentioned here is valid, I actually have my os's on three seperate drives, just in case. I started at 10.1 (same OWC pack), as I went through the upgrades, I noticed 10.2 was MUCH faster and stable. 10.2.6 is the best of them all. If you get as far as a good install, and you are feeling lucky, try to go to Jaguar, it makes a difference, but perhaps I am getting a little ahead here..... Most of all, don't panic if something goes horribly wrong....if you are using the three partition strategy, YOU CAN bring it back to to your 9.1 or 9.2 disk. GOOD LUCK, I have since moved my setup into a 9500 and found that it likes X!! Jim |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
August, 01, 2003 12:21 PM |
jseibyl |
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I assume your Matshita boots an OS 9 disk?? Mine didn't, but a Sony from another 8500 I had did. OSX DID NOT install from my Matshita drive, it DID from the Sony. |
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RE: Marcush... |
July, 30, 2003 12:30 PM |
pbell3 |
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I disagree. I don't give a tinker's damn what intervening problem crops up that might on the surface appear to be the fault, if using a smaller drive partition fixes it, and this HAS solved the problem with SCSI in the past; then why not make this a tacit solution for the problem? NVRAM or Firmware solutions can solve problems, but let's get people past the ".... I have a HUGE system and I can't get OSX loaded, what do I do?...." point first. Worry about actual solutions later. Keep in mind, a lot of users have no idea what firmware and NVRAM are, and no clue as to what to do with these problems to overcome them. You do, and I do, and that helps. Heaven forbid the user should find out that the firmware in a legacy system can't be updated, and that NVRAM is too small to cleanly do OSX in any event (requiring zapping NVRAM to clear sufficient space to swap systems). We'll just keep these important facts secret so that everybody else will have to live in the same hell WE ARE IN ! But getting the legacy OSX userbase up while admitting that the users are often more software competant than hardware competant, is really the challenge that we are ultimately discussing. So let's stop finding obscure excuses and solutions for other people's problems and use things that actually tend to work everytime. It's the kinder way in the long run. |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
July, 29, 2003 2:45 PM |
marcush |
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The 8GB limit is absolutely not a SCSI problem. The problems that people using SCSI have seen have for the most part been firmware or NVRAM related. However, you do have a point about erring on the side of caution. |
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RE: MJOECUPS358 |
July, 29, 2003 1:36 AM |
pbell3 |
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How many times in these messages have we noticed that folks have trouble with SCSI, and then when they use the same rules as an ATA user the problem disappears. Several times, and that is a fact. While the 8gig limit does not officially apply to SCSI, on several occasions here, we have seen that it is relevant. I tend to err on the side of caution in setting up a system with an experimental methodology. I pay attention to these details. I often suggest others do too. It is a kindness in the long run. Believe me, kindness is my motivation in making my comments, not inaccuracy. 'billbohughes' is new to this. And he owns enough hardware to experiment later with large partition use. But right now, let's try to get him running with as little hassle as possible, so that he'll know this is practical and have a moment of early success. How will you feel after he gets your info, and he finds himself one of that percentage that should have been more conservative? |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
July, 25, 2003 1:49 PM |
mjoecups358 |
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The 8 gig limit DOES NOT APPLY TO SCSI. I would recommend two partitions on the 18gig. One small one (2gig?) for a OS9.1 boot system and diskwarrior 2.1. The other for OSX. Make sure to format your drives with the drive setup that came with 9.1 (if you can...) Throttle is design to make sure G4's that reset into an unknown state don't get there panties into a bunch... Since your using a G3 this is immaterial. Once you get your OSX system up, you will need to setup/configure a cache enabler utilty also, otherwise it's REALLY slow. Marty |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
July, 25, 2003 1:27 PM |
pbell3 |
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Also don't forget, OSX boot partition must be less than 8GB, otherwise no go. New World systems don't care, but old owrld systems like your 9500, it matters. |
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RE: Taking the 1st plunge, PRE-installation advice |
July, 25, 2003 10:24 AM |
egonzales21 |
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Welcome to the crowd. You will not be able to boot from the Adaptec card so do not use this for the OS X install, however the card is still seen and the hard drives attached to it can be used. The ATTO card to my knowledge should be bootable with the firmware currently in use as the drive attached to this card appears to be the drive you are planning to do the install to. My partition strategy has always been this: Keep one partition, preferrably totally separate drive, for the original 9.1 system. This allows you to boot into 9 without problems when everything else goes haywire. A separate partition or drive for classic use. With this you can fine ways to upgrade to 9.2.2 which works optimally with 10. Then one large drive or partition for you to load OS X. In your case I would use the 18G drive for onlyl OS X. As for whatever drive/partition that will have OS X, it is best to format/partition with the Drive Setup Utility from OS 9.1. The CD drive should be OK since it is original Apple though I have never trusted it alone in any SCSI chain. I prefer to use a hard drive at the end of this chain with termination enabled and leave the CD drive in middle unterminated. The two video cards should be OK. Memory may be a problem but I have been able to use old chips before with a G3 but not a G4 processor. Good Luck Ed |
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