Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 25, 2003 12:47 PM |
mwann |
I am trying to rehab a beige G3 DT which has a 400Mhz ZIF upgrade. In order to get a hard drive to boot from, I plugged in a 4G SCSI drive in my PTPro 800Mhz/Sonnet machine and installed 9.1 and then with OS9 Helper, of course, 9.2.1 and 9.2.2. I transferred that drive to the beige G3 to start a X install, but the DVD drive will not boot X. It works fine in all other respects, i.e., booting from all the OS9 install disks, but, will not boot from the X. I get messages like can't OPEN, can't OPEN, can't OPEN streaming across the top of the screen if I try to start the X install by restarting from the X install disk which mounts on the desktop OK. If I try to choose the OSX as the startup disk by using Startup Disk in the Control Panels, I get a message like; "There is an error. Startup Disk cannot choose the install disk as the startup disk. (-2). I don't know what (-2) is because the negative errors listed on Apple KB do not start that low. It occurred to me after a while that 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 installed on the boot HD using OS9 Helper might be conflicting with the beige G3's ability to boot from the X CD. Also, could there be a similar issue with OSX installed using X Post Facto? Anyone know? mw |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 27, 2003 4:26 PM |
mwann |
. |
alrightee then I think I'm goiingti try and borrow some time on a friend's B&W and undo his main drive and plug the 80G into it and try it rom there. If it goes from there, I'll be back mw |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 27, 2003 11:57 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
got it. So you are trying to do the hard-drive shuffle between a machine that needs helper and XPF to a machine the alledgedly doesn't. If you get jag in your PT Pro with the help of XPF, you should remove the xpf extensions before you throw it into your g3. Ideally, you should just do a normal install on the target machine without xpf, but I see what you are doing. You might be hitting a brick wall with the fact that you are working with a scsi drive on the g3 DT that has the IDE stuff on it. I have not mixed flavours of drives (ide & scsi), I know a lot who have, but that is usually through a PCI interface for the IDE channel. The internal scsi connector is the same chain as the external, I believe, so it shouldn't be a problem in a perfect world. I have a g3 DT, but am sticking with the IDE on it, never plugged in anything to the scsi on the mobo as it is my fiancee's machine and I think it safer to just let it be...... |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 27, 2003 11:05 AM |
mwann |
. |
I'm using the PTPro to run (hopefully) a X install on a 4G SCSI so I can transfer it over to the beige G3 to see if I can get it to run on the beige since I have not been able to get past 9.2.2 on the beige. However, the PTPro wouldn't allow me to run the 9.2.1 install from a disk without using OS9 Helper. I was having problems on both machines........I know it was confusing. The DVD says: "Apple DVD 2X" "Manufactured to Apple specifications." I couldn't find a manufacturer. The beige came to me running 10.2, but, without a ROM module. When I misinstalled X on the replacement WD Caviar 80G....didn't install in the first 8G....I lost the machine. I had to buy a ROM module off eBay before I could boot the machine. I believe X has it's own "virtual ROM" so a ROM module is not necessary in X, but, I couldn't build the machine up without one. |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 27, 2003 10:35 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
A little clarification, wasn't fully awake on my last thread :- ).....I know you have the PT Pro, but I thought your issues are on the beige g3..... When you install os9, you have the option to do a costom install, and one of the options is for "universal install". I always choose this option, as the extensions it loads in are not specific for any machine, it generally is easier to get a good install if you choose this option. You have to go through the install box and just turn off things like the powerbook extensions, etc that are not specific to your machine but it just makes the thing generally more stable accross the board. Still not sure about that DVD, it must be a rare one.....If it is original OEM Apple, then it might help to update the firmare. OEM was made by another company, so if you can find out the original manufacturer, then a firmware update might be in order. It might be Pioneer, as the all the DVD stuff is made by them these days, but don't quote me on that. |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 27, 2003 6:04 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
Hold the phone here....You are talking about a beige G3 in the first thread and a PowerTower Pro here, I am slightly confused.....with a beige g3 you don't need any of this (helper, XPF) the PowerTower DOES. By universal install, I am talking about choosing the costom options when you install OS 9. One of the choices for the install is "universal". so it is not machine dependent..... No voo-doo there. It is just part of the OS options for install. Sonnet rocommends that for their upgraded chips... http://www.sonnettech.com/publicfiles/pdfs/pdf_onlinedocs/english/mac/ crescendo_pci_trimanual.pdf |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 26, 2003 2:44 PM |
mwann |
. |
I have to say I am ignorant of the "universal install" which doesn'tneed OS9 Helper. Have I been jumping through too many hoops? I thought all upgraded PTPros needed OS9 Helper. Initially, because I had forgotten, about the 9.2.x issue, when I loaded the 9.2.1 CD, I got the "This disk wil not work on this machine" message. The DVD on this beige G3 is a strange artifact of one of the configurations that Apple offered then......it's supposed to be original and came with the Rage ll +DVD chip soldered on the mobo. I first became aware of this rare bird when I tried to play a movie DVD when I first got machine. The 6G drive is ATA, but, I'm also trying to use a 4G SCSI as a boot -mule, if you will, so I can perform some routines on the 6G from the DVD/CD and boot from CD's. |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 26, 2003 6:32 AM |
jseibyl |
. |
Probally has something to do with your partitions. With my G3 DT, I just took the stock 6 gig disk, split it in half, used one partition for 9.2, and the other for X. I ran just the universal instal to bring it to 9.2, no helper needed, then went for X. That drive is ATA? correct?? I am more familiar with scsi, but that machine should be an easy install. The DVD I don't think is stock, the beige machine came with a 24x cd rom........ Codename: Gossamer CPU Speed: 233/266/300/333 Mhz FPU: integrated Bus Speed: 66 Mhz Data Path: 64 bit ROM: 4 MB RAM Type: 168 pin DIMM Mininum RAM Speed: 100 Mhz Onboard RAM: 0 MB RAM Slots: 3 Maximum RAM: 768 MB Level 1 Cache: 32 kb data, 32 k instruction Level 2 Cache: 1 MB backside, 1:2 VRAM: 2 - 6 MB (2 MB onboard, one socket) Maximum Resolution: all resolutions supported Slots: 3 PCI, 1 personality (filled) Floppy Drive: 1.4 MB SuperDrive Zip Drive: optional Optical Drive: 24x CD-ROM Hard Disk: 4 GB ATA Bus: EIDE Ethernet: 10Base-T ADB: 1 Serial: 2 SCSI: DB-25 Video Out: DB-15 Audio Out: stereo 16 bit mini Audio In: stereo 16 bit mini Speaker(s): mono Gestalt ID: 510 Power: 150 Watts Weight: 33.1 lbs. Dimensions: 15.2" H x 9.6" W x 17.8" D Minimum OS: 8.0 Maximum OS: 10.2.6 Introduced: November 1997 Terminated: January 1999 I would try another drive for install just for giggles, but it might be that all you need are two partitions, one for 9.2 and one for X. |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 25, 2003 9:40 PM |
mwann |
. |
This is absolutely maddening. I initialized the 80G drive amd partitioned it with Apple Disk Utilities. I then installed 9.1 in partition 3, 9.2.1 in partition 2 and then when I pot the OSX disk in and restarted to install X in the first partition which I had reduced to 7.5 G I get the same crap, only a different color.......this time the streaming mesage is hfs+ partitions bootable, hfs+ partitions bootable, hfs+ partitions bootable, hfs+ partitions bootable, ...... What can possibly be the problem starting from a bare drive and an instal disk up until the point of OSX install????? Is this thread over because I have left the realm of X POST FACTO and OS9 Helper?? |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 25, 2003 4:07 PM |
mwann |
. |
The DVD is an original drive that came with the machine which has a Rage ll+DVD chip in it....it will not play movie DVD's. This has the SOUND 'personality card.' It is an Rev.B. The 400M ZIF seems to be an Apple OEM since I can't find any 3rd party markings, but, that's just a guess....this box landed in my lap. (BTW, it was running 10.2 when I got it, running on the original...I'm assuimng....6.4G ATA Quantum.) My ultimate goal is to install an 80G WD ATA drive as the sole ATA drive on the machine, use the other ATA bus for the DVD/CD and include the small SCSI 4G with 9.1 installed, as a back-up boot drive. I screwed up the original X installation on the 80G because I was unaware of the "first 8G rule" on beige G3's. I was given this machine and am trying to rehab it for a friend who has had an iBook and PowerBook stolen from her, and I was unfamiliar with its anomalies even though I am a survivor of the XLR8 G4 Interleaving Wars and have had X Post Facto and OS9 Helper experience from over a year ago. I should mention that I had also installed OSX on a 6G ATA drive using a B&W G3 for the installation, and moved the 6G over to the brige G3, and have had the same problem with it. I can run X, and boot from a hard drive with X, but, when I run the installer routine on an X disk or try to boot from a X install disk, I seem to run into a wall. thanks for getting back so soon............mike |
. |
RE: Does OS9 Helper conflict with G3's with OSX? |
August, 25, 2003 2:25 PM |
jseibyl |
. |
No, OS Helper only modifies the install software for OS9.2, specifically circumventing the block that stops installs on "non" supproted machines. Once it does this, it is done. The beige G3 dt FULLY supports 9.2, you DON'T need OS Helper for the machine, I would do a clean install on that machine without it, or put 9.1 on drive from your other machine, and update that once it is running. I always do the "universal install" option, seems to work best for me. With regard to XPF, the beige G3 should also install X WITHOUT XPF. it is the earliest "supported" machine on the apple web site, so the X install should just run as native. I have a beige g3 dt that has a zif 500 g4 proc in it, and the install was almost too smooth..... Question...is that DVD drive firewire??? What I would do is remove the installed extensions of XPF, put the install disk into the native cd, if you have it, and go from there... |
|
|