Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 23, 2003 11:37 AM |
tsnb |
**Disclaimer** Sorry for the length. Might save a couple of posts this way :) ** Specs ** I have an 18GB SCSI drive (Seagate ST318417N) installed as a second drive (SCSI 0,1) in a PM8600/300 w/XLR8 G4/450 upgrade. It is divided into an 8GB partition (for 8GB limit thing) and a rest-of-the-drive partion. ** Background ** I installed 10.2.0 from Jaguar CDs on the 8gb partion. After some intitial dual monitor issues the install seemed to work fine (so I know the thing CAN work). I then copied the 10.2.8 combo updater from my TiBook and ran it. The disk image worked fine on the TiBook but wouldn't pass the checksum on my 8600. Since it mounted OK on the TiBook, I decided that it was probably a compatibility thing, mounted the image (yes, I know I'm an idiot, but that's really not the problem here) and ran the updater. On reboot, it would hang. In verbose mode I would get messages about getty respawning too rapidly (not exact wording) and a crash log daemon stopping. These messages would repeat until I did a hard reset. I went back to OS9 and tried several different things with XPF to no avail. Finally, I simply reinsalled from the 10.2.0 CD . . . **The Problem** I started the installer and then left town for a few hours. When I returned, the computer (possibly just the monitor) was asleep. When I woke it, the computer was booted into OSX with the finder up. There was a never ending spinning beachball. I don't think the drive was spinning up. I did a hard reset and then the computer could not find the boot device. I booted into OS9 on another disk. The 18gb drive could not be found by Disk First Aid, Norton or SCSI Probe. Further investigation showed that the drive would not spin up at all. An activity light showed nothing. I tried futtzing with jumpers and stuff, but nothing. 24 hours later I tried again and I got some activity on the drive but the computer didn't boot, I think because in working with the jumpers I had duplicate SCSI IDs (yes, I know I'm an idiot, but again, that's really not the problem here). When I fixed that and tried again, there was no activity on the drive. I waited another 24 hours. I put the drive into an external cabinet and hooked it to the external SCSI chain so that I could get at it easier. This time, when the cabinet was powered up, the activity light would flash randomly until the drive was powered off. The drive seemed to be trying to spin up, but never would. When the computer was booted, the drive could still not be detected. Finally, I tried tapping the drive with the butt of a screw driver (a last resort technique metioned somewhere in this forum or MacFixit). After several attempts, the drive spun up. I booted the computer off of the OS9 drive. After copying the critical data off (whew!) I tried playing with it. The drive seemed fine. It would not boot to OSX, but otherwise the data was intact and operation survived through several power-offs and reinstalling in the 8600 cabinet. Needless to say, I have initiated a warranty replacement with Seagate (I love their warranties!). But still, the drive appears to be working normally for now. **Finally, the question** Could OSX (eg: the sleep incompatibility) have caused the problem with an otherwise good drive? I'm trying to decide if I should try OSX again with the new drive, or will I risk busting it too. Thanks for listening, T. |
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RE: Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 29, 2003 4:41 PM |
tsnb |
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This helps alot, thanks for the information! T. |
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RE: Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 23, 2003 6:37 PM |
fixitjc |
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First there is no 8 gig issue with SCSI only with ATA, go ahead and use the whole drive if you want. You may have a bad bearing in the drive and tapping freed it up, I would pursue the warrantee. This is probably not a powersupply problem..ie; not enough juce to spin. I have 2 of the Seagate Elites (47 Gig full hight monsters) and they do need hefty powersupply. But nice drives. I was warned never to run them in any position other than right side up (circuit board up) something about the bearings not liking it. Not your problem. If you don't have them already go to the Seagate site as was suggested above and get the sheet on the jumpers for your drive. The suggestions above are great. Altho we all do some brain dead things learning these beasts is what it is all about. Good luck. Jim |
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RE: Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 23, 2003 1:19 PM |
gregoryy |
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Sometimes I've had to use FWB Configure if a drive got messsed up, and could happen just by having two drives on same ID. In fact, I think one drive never did survive that little 'mistake.' No need to partition any SCSI drive. I used an 18GB as is. Also, Seagate's site has all the jumper info to look at, and usually you don't need any jumper on Mac for normal operations. An active terminator has allowed a drive to work in OS X and other situations where just using a jumper on term pins did not. As long as it initializes okay, use it, but maybe with just one drive. Also, be sure to disable spin down and sleep. With ATA drives, the system can go into sleep 20 minutes into the install, and hang there (only on Beige and earlier, doesn't happen on NewWorld Macs). |
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RE: Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 23, 2003 12:26 PM |
tsnb |
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Termination and drive settings should be OK. In the 8600 it is in the middle of the SCSI chain, so the original drive should be terminated. When I had it in the external case, I know it was terminated properly. I did have it running for awhile under OSX, but only for about a week and not constantly. That's when I tried the upgrade and screwed things up. None of the jumpers are on. The list is: Terminator Enable Delay Motor Start Enable Motor Start Write Protect Parity Disable Term Power from Drive Term Power to SCSI Bus Term Power from SCSI Bus Again, none of these jumpers are set. I think this is right. I am only guessing that "Enable Motor Start" unjumpered means "Disable Unit Attention". Different SCSI settings didn't seem to make a difference, but again, the drive wouldn't spin at all, regardless of external parameters, until I knocked it around a little. I can try different SCSI IDs if and when I attempt OSX again. But the drive was definitely busted for awhile. Before I try again, I want to find out if there is any chance that the installation itself could cause a hard drive lock up like that. The drive runs OK now, it was just stuck for awhile. Thanks, Tim |
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RE: Can OSX cause a SCSI HD to freeze? |
October, 23, 2003 12:04 PM |
jseibyl |
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Is it terminated, sounds like a drive timing issue or termination to me. I have an IBM ultrstar that works as ID3 but NOTHING else for some reason, scsi chains use ID numbers as ways of bring up devices. I would try moving the ID # to 2 or 4 assuming the cd is on 3, ID1 seems to have issues on the main bus for a second drive. Also, make sure "disable unit attention" is set, on Seagate drives, I belive the setting is no jumper, is it set to auto start or wait for a signal from the bus, should be set to spin up as soon as the power hits it. Have you tried different cabling/connectors? Finally, I have seen larger drives not work on internal connectors, but work on external power. They will start up spin for a bit, then spin down. I saw this on some full size full height drives I was working with (Seagate Elites). You have been running jag on that disk before? Sounds like you have, has anything inside changed between the two installs?? Jim |
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