Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 21, 2002 3:33 PM |
webmaster814 |
Hi, I just got a new iBook 700mhz G3 and it is at least three times faster then my friends 9600/350 w/ Sonnet's G4 800mhz Upgrade. I seriously recommend buying a new machine, and stop fooling around with this PCI Upgrade crap, it is toooooooo slow. You will be amazed how much faster every new Mac is then a loaded old world machine.' Michael |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 6:02 PM |
marcush |
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I've had my Power Tower Pro for about 3 years now. When I bought it I transferred parts from my Power Center Pro, which I still have BTW, and have continued with incremental upgrades since. The last significant upgrade before the Sonnet G4 800 was a Ratoc Firewire/USB2.0 card ($120). Before that it was an Acard Ultra ATA 100 ($80). Now, the Sonnet card was $365 from Buy.com but everything else I already had. That's $565 in the last 2 years. If I count the previous processor upgrades that were sold to help finance the Sonnet Card then it would be less. I don't think I've gotten a bad return on my investment. I'm still able to run Final Cut Pro 3 and Photoshop 7, as well as all of the iApps very comfortably. Besides, I enjoy it and am still able to put aside money for a new Mac in another year or two. It depends if I want an entry level or top-of-the-line machine. There'll be things I can transfer from this mac when the time comes instead of paying extra for build-to-order options from Apple. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 1:04 PM |
kbata |
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I found this benchmark utility on Version Tracker. It's called XBench. It's a beta but it seems to work OK. The baseline score of 100 it from a dual 800. Here are my results. Results 45.59 System Info Xbench Version 1.0b2 System Version 10.2.1 Physical RAM 768 MB Processor PowerPC,60?@0 [450 MHz] CPU Test 53.44 GCD Recursion 42.40 1.66 Mops/sec Floating Point Basic 51.10 44.24 Mflop/sec AltiVec Basic 43.57 224.90 Mflop/sec Floating Point Library 76.70 3.44 Mops/sec Thread Test 29.23 Computation 29.25 235.68 Kops/sec, 4 threads Memory Contention 19.99 63.21 MB/sec, 2 threads Lock Contention 38.45 482.69 Klocks/sec, 4 threads Memory Test 35.51 System 40.84 Allocate 78.73 41.42 Kalloc/sec Fill 29.58 169.61 MB/sec Copy 14.20 85.22 MB/sec Stream 30.18 Copy 28.68 114.73 MB/sec [altivec] Scale 28.77 115.06 MB/sec [altivec] Add 31.71 126.85 MB/sec [altivec] Triad 31.58 126.32 MB/sec [altivec] Quartz Graphics Test 41.52 Line 33.36 849.09 lines/sec [50% alpha] Rectangle 38.71 2.72 Krects/sec [50% alpha] Circle 39.53 911.05 circles/sec [50% alpha] Bezier 49.39 536.62 beziers/sec [50% alpha] Text 46.63 785.33 chars/sec User Interface Test 42.83 Elements 42.83 13.71 refresh/sec Disk Test 71.00 Sequential 66.93 Uncached Sequential Write 64.50 28.58 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Sequential Read 69.35 29.96 MB/sec [256K blocks] Random 75.08 Uncached Random Write 80.49 18.92 MB/sec [256K blocks] Uncached Random Read 69.67 14.00 MB/sec [256K blocks] |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 12:08 PM |
webmaster814 |
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You dont run it in classic. Michael |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 11:42 AM |
kbata |
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Where do you get a copy of Macbench for OS X? |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 10:23 AM |
webmaster814 |
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Oh, really now the iBooks are not three times faster? Ok then, share your Seti@Home scores, MacBencfh scores, and you boot times with me. You'll see the speed difference. Its all about architecture, and the oldworldmachines are not in the same arena. Michael |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 23, 2002 1:03 AM |
fixitjc |
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For me it is just good economics. I squeeze a little more out of my machine and get more done and learn something in the process. As for the prices quoted by some in this string .... don't know where you are buying your parts but you are paying way way too much > just for instance RAM > you could completely fill an 8500 with 8 - 128 DIMMS for around $200 from OWC. But that's not the point of this forum we are here figuring out how to make our machines run better (sometimes just run) we are pushing the limits with our "antiquated" machines because we want to. just like those who choose to race '56 Chevys and surprise surprise they sometimes beat the new models. It's fun and it streaches us and our machines. By the way why are you with your new iBook in this forum for Old World machines telling us things we really already know (but choose to ignore) LOL We mussant take life that seriously.. it is an adventure to be enjoyed and never never never let the goobies get you down, be they people, machines or code. enjoy JiM |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 8:56 PM |
kbata |
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I've seen the Ibooks and they are not three times faster. They may be a lot faster for some tasks but not for all. The result of upgrades I have done over the years on my computer have allowed me to use the same computer for longer than I can remember. I'm looking at a stack of Mac OS's for my current machine starting at 7.0. If I got a new machine every couple of years I would have spent far more than it cost me on upgrades. Once I do upgrade I can still use this computer for other tasks. It's not all wasted money. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 8:26 PM |
worldalex |
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Let us make it simple. If you want to really appreciate OS X, do not waste your time on a Classic Machine. It is just plain stupid. It can cost bunches of money. It can cost a lot of money to upgrade an older machine and it will never run as well as a new mahcine. If you have an older Mac, already invested in a G3 or G4 and want to play with OS X then I recommend X-Postfacto. I am playing with OS X on my 9500 until I decide it is worth putting it on a production Mac. It is not yet worth it for me to saddle my G4 with "X", plus I really like 9 (OK, I am a luddite). As to cost, I have spent the last few years building up my Mac, a piece at a time. Over these last years the cost of upgrades has been easy to bear. Doing it all at once is not cost effective, I must agree. Spending $3,000 for a new Mac just to surf the Web in "X" or to use for light occassional worth when you have a heavily upgraded Mac is also foolish. In short If you already have an upgraded Classic Mac, it makes sense to use X-Postfacto to evaluate the need for a new Mac or for light work in "X". If you don't have a compatible PCI Mac which is already upgraded with sufficient RAM, and a G3 or G4, then buy a new Mac. Upgrading an old Mac is not cost effective. A generally bad idea. If you read any of the upgrade guides they all point this out (see XLR8.com, MacWorld.com, MacAddict.com, etc . . .). Do read the advice columns. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 4:32 PM |
webmaster814 |
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No, any new Mac will competly change the way that you do everything. My iBook in comparision to the top of the line Old World Machine is three tiimes faster. Now lets think here, a new DP PM must be at least eight times faster. That means that you productivity would be theoretically up 800%. I have double the bus speed, and SDRAM is six times faster then EDO ram. Now as you can see I am doing work so fast now, that my machine waits for me instead of me waiting for it. It is amazing. Michael |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 2:51 PM |
styky |
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I think its a good idea to use old machines as a productive piece of equipment as oppose to a door stop. New machines always cost 30 to 40% more and almost never give you that much of a speed increase to make it a no brainer. We are talking minutes and seconds in the real world . Its kind of like buying a new car or keeping the old car you have and doing maintenace on it , its still a little cheaper than shelling out all that dough. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 11:34 AM |
worldalex |
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What really amazes me is you dudes who only use one Mac. I couldn't get by with only 3 and definately not with one. My G4 870 is great for production, my blue and white is great for general web surfing, my upgraded 9500 is great for digitizing video for later work on my G4 and my 840 which is a killer fax machine. But then I guess buying a new machine whenever possible does eliminate the need to figure out how to be really productive. I mean using a machine specifically set up for a particular task seems to be the smart thing to do. To use a G4 to do everything seems a bit limiting. I believe you should always optimize your Mac for the task you set for it. Or you can run like wintel people and figure a one size fits all solution is best. Yeah, what do I know, I am a dude trying to make a living while wasting as little as possible. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 22, 2002 10:00 AM |
webmaster814 |
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The iBook has a 100mhz bus, and SDRAM which makes it three times faster then any old world machine. The thing that really pissed me off with old world machines is that for a 9600 you'll spen 200, then an ATI Radeon Mac Edition will set you back 150, then a ATA 100 HD and PCI ATA Card will be another 150, Mac OS 10.2 will set you back another $120.00, RAM will set you back a lot of money anywhere from 300-600 depending on RAM quality, and a USB/ FireWire card will be another $100.00, and a G4 800mhz Upgrade will be $300.00. Also, there are a lot more little costs that will arise, and before you know it you spent at least $1,200.00 on a five year old machine. This machine will also encounter many problems along the way, pain with the drivers for video, PCI card configuration, and a whole lot of other things. My point is, think before you start investing so much into an old world machine, that will not even be half the speed of a consumer laptop. Michael |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 21, 2002 8:41 PM |
marcush |
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I'm waiting too. I got one of the Sonnet G4 800's from buy.com for $367. It's worth the money I think. Bus speed is the limiting factor on the old world machines. |
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RE: Funny Thing About Speed: |
September, 21, 2002 6:36 PM |
powderhaus |
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I dont know about everyone else but im waiting for for one of those IBM chips. and i want to be able to us X and its not realy theMHZ of the chip its the MHZ of the bus in X. the ibook has what 66mhz or 100mhz bus and we have 40-50mhz bus i would say its running really good considering that. Why did he buy a 800mhz upgrade arnt they like 500-600$just get like a B+W G3 or even an emac for a little more. I think Xpostfacto is great! he would still be using 9 if it wasnt for XpostFacto |