Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 01, 2002 6:25 PM |
avaughs |
I moved some RAM around in my computer and installed some PCI cards. When I booted up, the startup chime was abrivated, cutting off after about a quarter of a second. I un-installed the PCI cards but the problem remains and persists in Mac OS 9 and X. I've pressed (and held) the CUDA switch, I've Zapped (command-option-p-r) the NVRAM but the sound does not return. I've even issued the "reset-all" command when booted into Open Firmware. The sound remains truncated. Has anyone else encountered this problem and more importantly, does anyone have a fix to restore the full boot chime? PowerMac 9600 G4/450 XLR8 MACh Carrier MPe, Radeon 7k ME, 352MB de-interleaved RAM, SCSI hard drives on bus 0. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime-OWC comes through |
October, 12, 2002 1:37 PM |
blel |
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OWC is now offering a matched set of memory if the recent 128's are incompatible with previous 128 purchases from OWC. May be for a limited time, Call the Cust. Svc. dept. My 1st RMA replacement did not fix the problem. I'm sure this will. My thanks to OWC for responding in a positive way. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 10, 2002 1:31 PM |
marcush |
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I had definite compatibility problems with two OWC 128MB 4k refresh DIMMS with an XLR8 G4 450 MPe SSE card. The machine either gave me a truncated chime and crashed in the OS9.1 finder or would freeze OSX during the boot phase where all of the core services were starting. I singled them out after a laborious process with my Power Tower Pro. In the end I took 4 64MB 2k refresh DIMMS out of my Power Center Pro and reinstalled my logic board cache to be able to re-interleave my RAM with that card. I bought the Sonnet G4 800 card as soon as it was available for pre-order and was able to interleave my RAM without any tricks or troubleshooting. Just a few days ago, when I had the case open for a combo CD-RW/DVD drive install I decided to give those two OWC DIMMS another try. To my surprise they are working fine with the Sonnet card. I now have 6x128MB DIMMs and 2x64MB DIMMS in the machine for a total of 896MB RAM. One thing I did not realize until I looked at them all again was that the most recent pair are 4k refresh, as well as another pair that I bought last year. I think that the original pair that I bought for this machine about 2-3 years ago are 2k refresh, though it is not clearly marked on them as the 4k's are. I'm mentioning this because of Paul Findley's post. I have two pairs of 4k refresh RAM in my machine and so far there are no problems. I believe he has a Power Tower Pro as well so the problem he saw may be caused in various cases either by logic board revision, or as in my case, the processor brand. So it is possible for this combination to work. I don't particularly like OWC's restocking fees either but as their prices are vastly lower than many other's I'll probably be buying another pair in the near future from them. If they don't work I'll just try to exchange them or install them in my Power Center Pro. Also, I have to say that I got an apparent speed boost in Jaguar buy adding more RAM. Everything is perceptably faster with 896MB RAM as opposed to 768MB RAM. I would not have thought so but that's what I'm seeing. More reason for me to max out to a Gig. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 10, 2002 12:04 PM |
drc |
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Interesting. I've had a truncated chime on my 9500 for years & had pretty much gotten used to it. Tonight I was upgradin: first I maxed out on OXC RAM—no problems so far but after I installed the 800 MHz Sonnet upgrade I heard the complete chime for the first time in years. Unfortunately my dual monitor set-up got hosed, even when I went back to the 450 MHz card. I don't really care if I have a complete chime at all. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 06, 2002 11:16 AM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
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kpsf, I'll vouch for the RamJet 64MB, 2K refresh DIMMs. They've been working great in my 9500 with a Sonnet G4/450 upgrade for a couple of months. Like others in this forum, I've tried many different DIMMs from OWC and have had problems with every one of them. I can't put my finger on why this is so, but the RamJet memory is solid all the way through Jaguar. Be forewarned - RamJet DIMMs are very expensive, but you definitely get what you pay for. After three months of going around in circles with different DIMMs, I'm now sold on RamJet. I look at it from the point of view that my time is worth much more than the difference in price of the DIMMs. Save yourself the headaches and just cough up the bucks. You won't be sorry. Tony |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 05, 2002 5:10 PM |
kpsf |
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I have 7500 with XLR8 carrier card and a week ago I installed a new OWC 128 meg module. It boots fine, but when I reboot I get the truncated chime and a static noise and then the box just sits there -- no screen, nothing. When I turn it off and boot, it's fine. I removed the new RAM module ana everything is back to normal now. I've just gotten an RMA from OWC but now I'm not sure I want to try again. (A) Is it better to just ask for credit and buy something else? (B) Is there any RAM I can buy that has a better prospect of working? |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 04, 2002 6:42 PM |
blel |
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This is from todays (10/4/02) OWC Specials email: "All OWC memory is covered with a Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty and we guarantee it to be the right stuff for your Mac. We are Mac Memory experts so you don't have to be!" I think we have to call them on this issue. If I bought 768 mb of memory from them, then it should all work. It does not, so it should be covered under their warranty. I will check with them again Monday. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 04, 2002 4:07 PM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
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I'm still stuck with two 128MB DIMMs from OWC. At the moment, I have four 64MB Ramjet DIMMs and two 128MB OWC DIMMs in the G4/450 8500 and 10.2 works almost flawlessly (other than a freeze about once a day). I tried placing the two remaining OWC 128's into my G4/400 7200 running OS 9.2, and the machine won't boot. I'm contemplating trying these DIMMs in the 8500 but I suspect they'll bring the 8500 to its knees as well. I won't pay the restocking fee to OWC, so I guess I'm stuck with them. Both the pair of 128's in the 8500 and the extra pair are 60ns DIMMs but they use different DRAM's and have different buffer chips. Even with the DIMM swapping I previously did with OWC, I couldn't get two pairs of 128's that used the same chips. I'm pretty sure that the mixing of parts from DIMM to DIMM causes this flakiness in certain machines. The only safe way to buy memory is to pay RamJet's premium prices. Of course, this depends on how much money your debugging time is worth. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 04, 2002 4:04 PM |
jr-newhouse |
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I had the same problem with the abbreviated boot chime after installing 128 MB DIMMS I recently purchased from OWC. However, my problem always occurred when I was in OS 9.1. Everytime I tried to restart, I would get the truncated chime, and the computer would hang. After pressing the reset button to shut the computer down, and powering up again, things wouId work okay. In other words, everything would work fine and dandy as long as I didn't try to restart. I tested the memory with TechTool, and it reported that everything was fine. Whenever I would work in OS 10.2.1, everything would be fine and I could restart with no problem. When I removed the 128 MB DIMMS and reinstalled the old memory modules, the problem went away. I contacted OWC, and they replied that I should try deinterleaving the 128 MB modules. Since interleaving gives me better RAM performance, I don't feel this is a viable option. The RAM modules should work as advertised. Needless to say, I'm not very happy with OWC right now. My setup is a PowerMac 7300 upgraded with a NewerTech 400/200 G3 card, 224 MB installed RAM (interleaved), ATI XClaim VR 128 graphics card (16 MB). |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 04, 2002 1:01 PM |
paul_findley |
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Here is part of my post on the 800MHz thread, concerning RAM: "Note to everyone having problems: The 800 Mhz card is VERY picky about ram, esp. in OS X 10.2.x. It will tolerate two owc 4k refresh 128MB modules (uninterleaved), but not 4 of them (crashes on boot or during applications). So I'm maxed out at 256MB, unless I decide to try some 64MB 2k refresh modules (more money for less ram per module). The card is definitely more touchy in OS X than OS 9, but with the new firewire, and the limit on 4k refresh ram, I seem to be stable in X finally. " Further Notes: I don't like OWC's policy of charging a restock fee when something doesn't work for the advertised purpose. The 128MB modules are advertised as compatible with all G3/G4 upgrades. When I interleaved the two remaining owc modules, I get the breaking glass sound. Used to work fine with 400MHz G3 in an xlr8 carrier card. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 03, 2002 9:47 PM |
blel |
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I don't believe the issue is about OWC's memory being bad or certain upgrade cards, but rather there is a problem mixing various Dimms bought at different times. OWC buys what it can find on the market for the best price at the time, which is why the prices are good. It seems that the people having the problem are the ones that have bought different batches at different times, and they don't work together. I don't see a solution if OWC never has consistant product, other than swapping all the old Dimms to create a full matched set. So far they don't admit to a problem. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 03, 2002 8:38 PM |
rettink |
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Boy it looks like I got lucky. I have 1Gig of the 128m RAM from OWC and I have never heard the partial chime. 8500, NewerTech G4/450, Radeon Mac Edition, Miles U2W SCSII card, Firewiredirect USB/Firewire |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 03, 2002 8:12 PM |
davelentz |
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Some more info is needed here -- it is only certain cpu cards that have problems with the OWC 128M DIMMs, or is it everything? In looking through here I see that: works fails ------- ------------ XLR8 G3 XLR8 G4 PowerLogix G3 PowerLogix G4 604e Sonnet G4 =========================================== This isn't really a decent survey, as we should probably have the full complement of installed cards to rule out conflicts from some other card, but it's a start. Has anyone used the OWC 128M DIMMs with one of the Sonnet 800 MHz cards, and if so, did it work or not? |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 03, 2002 4:16 PM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
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Yep, I had a few words with OWC about their 128M DIMMs. I purchased two pair at different times and the DIMMs physically were different. Electrically, some were 60ns and some were 70ns. I did convince them to swap DIMMs for me because I had purchased the XLR8 card from them as well. I told them that the problem was either the card or the DIMMs so one or the other would have to be swapped to solve the problem. Of course, swapping DIMMs didn't really help, so I finally asked them to take back the XLR8 card and give me a Sonnet card instead. They didn't want the XLR8 card back because XLR8 had just gone out of business. Had to drive over to their office to get them to do the exchange. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 03, 2002 1:02 PM |
blel |
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Just for the record, I just had the same problem after I added a pair of 128 mb Dimms from OWC last week. I tried interleave and non-interleave with no effect. I have sent them back for replacement. It seems to be a Ram compatibility problem, but the OWC tech said there were the same part no. (different manuf.) as the ones I bought in June and should work. I think OWC needs to be part of this discussion. They are charging return postage, or a restocking fee if they still don't work. Current Sys: 7600, 512mb, PowerLogix 500/G3, ATI 7000. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 02, 2002 11:26 AM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
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I experienced this problem as well when I owned the XLR8 G4/450 upgrade card. I purchased memory from two different sources, even going so far as to purchase the most expensive DIMMs from Ramjet. With the XLR8 card installed, the chime was always truncated. The only way to restore the full chime was to pull the XLR8 card, and put in the old Sonnet card. Resetting the PRAM was sometimes required. I returned the XLR8 card and purchased a Sonnet G4/450 upgrade card instead. The chime problem has been gone ever since. By the way, the truncated chime is an indication of a timing issue between the XLR8 card and the memory. I'm convinced that the XLR8 G4 card would not play well with ANY memory DIMM which is why I finally returned it. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 02, 2002 9:28 AM |
g2 |
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Same thing happened to me. My techie friend says it's a result of the RAM refresh, but that nothing is affected functionally. Purely cosmetic. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime (final word?) |
October, 02, 2002 6:31 AM |
avaughs |
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Removed all the memory, DIMM by DIMM, until none was left. Only then did I get a "Chime"; the chime which sounds like breaking glass which signals no RAM installed. It played to completion. I installed a brand new (never been used) 128MB DIMM and encountered the truncated boot chime. So I removed the G4/450 and replaced it with a 604e daughter card. The full boot chime returned. Put all the original memory back into the sytem (only this time interleaved). Received a full chime with the 604e cpu. Swapped the G4/450 back in the the full chime returned. I'm guessing it was the G4/CPU. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 02, 2002 12:26 AM |
davelentz |
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I have this peculiar sequence whenever I boot from 9 to X or X to 9, which at one point along the way, does have a truncated boot chime. Whenever I reboot and switch systems (I don't believe this occurs when rebooting into the same system): 1) the initial attempt always fails, and goes into a panic at an early point in the boot process. 2) I reboot (ctrl-cmd-power), and it gets a bit farther, usually ending with the truncated boot chimes. 3) I reboot a THIRD time -- and almost always, it (eventually) comes up OK, with a complete boot chime. So maybe the third time's the charm? Definitely wierd, in any event. I'm running with an XLR8 G3/466 card in a 7500, and have recently added a couple of the OWC 128M DIMMs. I noticed that they are 4K refresh, while all the other RAM in the box is 2K -- perhaps this is a factor, but when under OS 9.1, some utility (the XLR8 control panel, I think) shows that all the RAM is interleaved and working fine. But then OS X appears (for whatever reason) to be a lot more demanding of RAM than OS 9. But once it finally gets booted up, it's solid as a rock. Using a CompUSA Windows 98 combo Firewire+USB card and an ATI 128VR video card, and most things work quite well. Just to see if there was anything obviously in error, I rebooted in verbose mode and noted a number of messages like... Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: getDependencyListForKmod(): Dependency com.apple.kernel of oldworld.support.PatchedIOSCSICDDrive is not compatible or is unavailable. Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: load_kernel_extension(): Can't get dependencies for kernel extension "oldworld.support.PatchedIOSCSICDDrive". Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: IOCatalogue: oldworld.support.PatchedIOSCSICDDrive cannot be loaded. and also ... Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: getDependencyListForKmod(): Dependency com.apple.kernel of oldworld.support.PatchedSCSIDeviceType05 is not compatible or is unavailable. Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: load_kernel_extension(): Can't get dependencies for kernel extension "oldworld.support.PatchedSCSIDeviceType05". Oct 1 22:24:20 dsl093-203-107 mach_kernel: IOCatalogue: oldworld.support.PatchedSCSIDeviceType05 cannot be loaded. And these are the messages from the third reboot that succeeds. Go figure. |
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RE: Truncated Boot Chime |
October, 01, 2002 6:32 PM |
marcush |
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When I had the XLR8 G4/450 MPe SSE card in my Power Tower Pro w/Original Radeon PCI and 768MB deinterleaved RAM it turned out that this problem was caused by some bad or incompatable RAM. it took about an hour but I narrowed the problem RAM down to a matched pair of 128MB Dimms that I got from OWC. They work fine in my Power Center Pro with a Powerlogix G3 375 though. I now have a Sonnet G4 800 but have not tested them with it yet. I think the XLR8 G4/45 Mpe is just hypersensitive to RAM. You might try testing stick by stick to see if the problem only appears with a particular stick(s) of your RAM. |
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