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jseibyl |
October, 10, 2003 3:45 PM |
screwj |
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hmmmm, interesting idea...I'll give it a shot tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it went... |
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screwj |
October, 10, 2003 3:21 PM |
jseibyl |
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okay, this is a shot in the dark, I wonder what would happen if you yanked the on board vram, with no vram to go to, perhaps that is the down and dirty way to disable it......... |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 2:29 PM |
screwj |
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ok, tried the cuda switch and removing the battery (but only for a few minutes). No change. looks like I'll have to disable the onboard. I've had a look at the thread but haven't a clue how to work out the mask setting though. Also, looking in IORegistryExplorer, there's an entry in the device-tree called chosen@0, with what look to be BootX variables, including stdout, machargs and bootargs. Would be interesting to know whether these are relevant. The reason I've had to switch to a single monitor is lack of space. I really enjoyed having three monitors, but alas, I have to make do with what I've got for now. Anyway, If anyone fancies giving me a hand with the pci-probe-list I'll gladly provide the info, but it's a bit over my head to work it out myself. The MB is rev C btw, in case that's any use determining a pattern. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 1:43 PM |
gregoryy |
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I either use two displays, onboard and Radeon, or just don't use the Radeon anymore (the onboard is actually okay with 10.2.6/8. Output always went to built- in, then switched to Radeon at about the login point. If you need to boot into Single User mode, another reason to have 2nd monitor. There ought to be a way to first init-nvram, then add or have XPF modify the OF output, no? (Otherwise, I never needed to use XPF, seemed doing init-nvram made switching between OS X/9 work properly, which it wasn't before). Also, with Radeon and ACard I was having trouble with usiing a 3rd OF PCI card. |
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lyonsdj88 |
October, 10, 2003 1:29 PM |
jseibyl |
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Nicely done...do you know what rev mobo those g3's have issue with?? I wonder, Boot X must be sending the PCI string to the MAch_Kernel if it boots on some rev...yes??? |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 1:26 PM |
lyonsdj88 |
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Also, try to install BootX from XPF if you installed OS X without XPF. Mybe the trouble is with the BootX from Apple and the one from XPF can fix this. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 1:11 PM |
lyonsdj88 |
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pci/ATY,RV100Parent@D/ATY,RV100ad_A:This is the NVRam setting that Open FirmWare reads to display OF not the Arg. that Mach_Kernel gets. If you conect 2 displays you will see that OS X is booting to the built-in video ,when Quartz starts Then it "looks" for you monitor and if no monitor is hooked to the console(built-in ATI) then it probes for other monitors.Ryan will have to chime in on BootX to see if there is a way to hand your Radeon to Mach_Kernel. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 12:52 PM |
screwj |
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ok, the output device is being set to "pci/ATY,RV100Parent@D/ATY,RV100ad_A", and works fine to get to the OF screen (though it took me ages to work out how to get that far) Can't remember whether the machine's B or C, but I assume C, as it was a "very near EOL" model (I wasn't tuned in to the grapevine in those days, otherwise I'd have waited a month and got the better machine!) Oh, nearly forgot, onboard video works fine (when I reset the nvram variable), I have been using it for verbose and SU mode whenever necessary. Anyway, thanks for all the help so far |
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I'd rather not have to disable to built-in video. |
October, 10, 2003 12:48 PM |
lyonsdj88 |
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If I'm right you don't have much choise ,other than compiling Mach_Kernel without the code that is giving this "bug". I could be only half right and video is handed to the Kernel by BootX. Ryan is the GURU on that. In UNIX/LINUX BootX can send a Argument to the kernel telling it where console video is. So if you had a way to pass an add boot arg. to Mach_Kernel with a comand like"video=pci1/ATYParent_A@E" then you would get console on the Radeon even if you had another display hoked to the built-in ATI. |
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lyonsdj88 |
October, 10, 2003 12:30 PM |
jseibyl |
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Nice, chicken before the egg crap, bastards. My g3 is rev B |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 12:27 PM |
jseibyl |
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Have you tried the onboard video connector...... system preferences is the file in the system folder>sytem prefs. This won't work if it is trying to boot into jag though.... You are correct, cuda and battery would be next unless you can try lyonsdj88 solution, he may be correct, but if you do that, you will loose the option of using a monitor in that connector. Shot in the dark, when you set XPF to your output disply, which device are you setting it to, can you send the string?? BUMMER, I thought that would do it :-( |
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but I have a beige g3 with a radeon card |
October, 10, 2003 12:23 PM |
lyonsdj88 |
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Mybe the Rom Rev. or ATI chip rev. has something to do with it. IE Rev A,B,C BootRom for the Beige. Some Beige's have this trouble some do not.Could be that Apple hade some trouble getting OS X to see the ATI chip in some Beige's so they put a work around in OS X to get console video at boot, as they could not asume that you would have a PCI video card. ATI says on thier site that it is normal in the Beige to Not get video from the Radeon until Quartz and if you want video before that hook to the built-in display.Thanks ATI. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 12:05 PM |
screwj |
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jseibyl, which video prefs file did you mean? I've tried zapping the PRAM, but no joy. I suppose, unless I've missed something, CUDA and battery are next, I'd rather not have to completely disable the onboard video. I can't hook the old config back up as I don't have any other monitors available at the moment. I've also tried switching connector on the radeon card, but it doesn't make any difference |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problemlyonsdj88 |
October, 10, 2003 11:30 AM |
jseibyl |
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I still think it is simply a matter of pram. The trouble is "I used to run several monitors, and it's as though OS X thinks I still have another "main" monitor connected somewhere " the PRAM remembers what used to be here. You are certainly correct about your soloution, but I have a beige g3 with a radeon card, and built in video, and did not have to modify the device tree to get the monitor to show up, even after I had started out with the on-board, and switched to the Radeon card latter. I friend of mine had a similar prob, but in os9 when he "downgraded" from multiple monitors and that was the fix he did and it worked. |
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but it seems weird? |
October, 10, 2003 11:09 AM |
lyonsdj88 |
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You can boot OF, but when Mach_kernel boots it is booting to the built-in display card(ATI)Beige G3. That's the key remember the Beige G3's are "supported" so Apple put code in the Kernel to boot the video card they shipped. Disable the built-in ATI card and Mach_kernel will look for another console and find the Radeon. I'm fairly sure that this is the trouble, but I could be wrong. If you "tell" OF not to probe the built-in ATI at boot it will not get a "node" in the device tree and Mach_kernel will not "see" it.Please see the PCI Feature Request thread. Boot OF :setenv pci-probe-list? THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST FIND OUT. Or you can use Terninal in OS X :sudo nvram pci- probe-list="YOU TEXT HERE" not sure what the device tree on a Beige looks like,but if you ask joeVT he can,most likely, tell you what bus and what device your built-in ATI card is on. Once you know that you can tell OF not to probe it and see if that works for you. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 10:51 AM |
jseibyl |
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Zapping pram might be your fix, make sure you do it from a warm boot, and bong it three times...... X reads the pram file just like 9 |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 10:47 AM |
jseibyl |
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WAIT.....multiple monitors is the key here.... You are correct, can you try just plugging in the monitors you originally had???? Or try another connector on the video board. OS 9 remembers that you had multiple monitors, you can fix this this by booting into 9 and trashing the video preference file and zapping pram. |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 10:43 AM |
screwj |
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Right, just tried safe mode, and no change. Black screen until the startup progress bar, logging into console "freezes" the screen but typing blindly works (ie, it's there, but it ain't showing). Is the monitor configuration OS X uses saved in a settings file somewhere that is used really early on in the boot process? I used to run several monitors, and it's as though OS X thinks I still have another "main" monitor connected somewhere |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 10:40 AM |
jseibyl |
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Yes it should, but PCI Extreme rewrites a core services plist file so I believe it is automatically fired up even in single user even before Quartz is initiated...It flags the system to go to the PCI slot rather than an AGP slot at boot for video, so although QE is not loaded yet, it might be enough of a change to mess up the boot. if that doesn't work, try the safe boot....I have heard of some people having difficulty in single user mode w/XPF..... A Safe Boot may allow you to restart successfully using a reduced version of system software. During this restart, an automatic disk check and repair may resolve your issue. If it does, then you will not need to take any further action. Follow these steps to see if a Safe Boot will resolve your issue: 1. Restart the computer (using the Power button or Reset/Interrupt button if necessary). 2. Immediately after the system startup sound, press and hold the Shift key until "Safe Boot" appears. Note: There may be a considerable delay, particularly on larger startup volumes, since the disk check and repair take place before "Safe Boot" appears. 3. After the system is fully started up, restart again normally. Good Luck... Jim |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 10:21 AM |
screwj |
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Aah, yes I'm running PCI extreme. Just a question though, aren't all the quarz drivers loaded later in the boot process, ie, single user mode just uses OF drivers? I'll try your suggestions anyway, thanks |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 9:51 AM |
jseibyl |
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When I got my flashed card from ebay, I took it up to the 208 firmware just to start where my standard mac edition was. If that card can be flashed, it might be worth a shot to try the standard ATI firmware IF you have a backup to that revised rom you flashed with. With regard to open firmware, that is usually before all the Quartz extensions, and higher level stuff is loaded, so that actually makes sense to me, have you tried booting it into safe mode?? If you can, then it has got to be something in either the firmware of the Radeon card, OR the Quartz extensions. Last question, are you running PCI Extreme to get quartz extreme on that card????? |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 9:05 AM |
screwj |
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seems to be 208, but it's a patched version (from Joevt? can't remember and lost the email), I might try reverting back, but it seems really weird that OF works, but OS X console and boot display don't |
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RE: New(?) Radeon 7000 problem |
October, 10, 2003 8:04 AM |
jseibyl |
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What version firmwar is that Radeon?? I have a flashed/converted 7000 64 meg card, and was able to go to v208 straight from ATI, seems to be fine..... |