Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 11, 2003 7:59 PM |
brfransen |
I just got a Sonnet Tempo ATA133 with firmware 3.2.5 and Pioneer DVR-105. In 9.1 & 9.2.2 the DVR-105 is recognized and mounts CDs perfectly. However, when I try to boot into 10.2.3 on a IBM 36GB SCSI drive all I get is a black screen. The monitor comes on and then turns off. There is no disk activity. I am able to reboot into 9 by holding the option key. I have tried to install X onto another partion but after I press restart in Xpostfacto it reboots with the same results as above. I am most certain that the problem has to do with the Tempo 133 because when the Sonnet card is removed I can boot into X just fine. So, does anyone have any suggestions? I am open to most anything. Thanks, Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 29, 2003 3:19 AM |
chibi_delenn |
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Ryan, Ok, I got to the Kernel Panic screen finally. Yay (sarcasm ensues). I can now give you what showed up on my screen, or at least, the last screen's worth of info after the initial "scroll everything up so it can't be read" part of the KP. Kernel Version: Darwin Kernel Version 6.0 Sat Jul 27 13:18:52 PDT 2002; root: xnu/xnu-344.obj-1/RELEASE_PPC No debugger configured - dumping debug information MSR=0x00001030 Latest stack backtrace for CPU 0: Backtrace: 0x00085393C 0x00085F00 0x00028B8C 0x002314A8 0x00213A38 0x00213834 0x00214184 0x002147E0 0x00204C60 0x00204C24 Proceeding back via exception chain: Exception state (sv=0x01011500) PC=0x00000000 ; MSR=0x0000D030 ; DAR=0x00000000 ; DISR=0x00000000 ; LR=0x00000000 ; R1=0x00000000 ; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown) And there you have it. Fun, isn't it? Unfortunately, for an install from CD, deleting the Extensions.mkext isn't an option, since XPF simply forces the reinstall of it when it copies everything over for the initial boot "helper" drive, and doesn't let the user delete anything before restarting. This is also why niceties like the SonnetCache.kext cannot be loaded on the Install option, since there's no chance to even get to the Finder to move it into place since XPF auto-restarts without so much as a confirmation dialogue. I've used Carbon Copy Cloner and Disk Copy (6.5b11 for OS 9 and also DU for OS X) to clone the OS X working partition to the 200 GB's OS X partition, deleted the Extensions.mkext file and still get either a frozen startup screen or kernel panic. It's frustrating that a 200 GB HD seems to be the sole cause of the failure to boot up at all properly. Really, really irritating, no? I will continue to try more things on my end. At this point, XPF 2.2.5 is the only one that will successfully write to NVRAM for the Install process, as XPF 2.2.1 takes too much NVRAM space. 2.2.1 does, however, work for a simple reboot to the 40 GB HD, no problems. I soooo want to get OS X working on the 200 GB. That 8 MB cache and the 7200 RPM drive itself would probably make things a bit snappier...if it just bloody worked. :( - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 27, 2003 10:42 PM |
chibi_delenn |
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Ryan, I can't even get the kernel panic text to show up half the time. Usually what will happen is that I get the Apple Logo startup screen, and it just sits there. No swirling disk indicator, nothing. Even enabling "show panic text" in XPF doesn't help. This makes it just a tad hard to get information on what is happening. It's as if XPF's -v and -s modes are being completely ignored. I *do* know that Sonnet really needs to give us a firmware that reports a shorter name than UltraTek133/FrmTk-0/, because half the time, no matter what version of XPF I use, I get the "There were problems writing to NVRAM" error. (2.2.5, btw, will NOT boot any OS X for me even on the Seagate - what's with the "-i" in the boot-file line?) The other weird thing is that if I take off the 200 GB HD from the Tempo Trio, I can boot/install from the Installer CD from either my SCSI CD-R drive, or my Pioneer IDE DVD-ROM drive. But with the 200 GB HD in place, it's a no go. There seems to be problems with the Trio and large capacity drives and the 3.5.0 firmware. Unfortunately, I cannot go to 3.2.5 firmware, as that will make my 200 GB HD (with OS 9 as my main system on it) unrecognizeable in any OS. Now, if I could just figure out also why my HD/CD/DVD performance is so crappy on the Trio as compared to my old Tempo ATA/66... - Chibi Delennâ„¢ |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 27, 2003 1:13 PM |
adrian3 |
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Hello Ryan I am wondering if you developed an installer that boot from Sonnet trio, because I have a hard drive 100 GB IDE and I installed MAC OS X thru PCI installer from sonnet that require Only 8 GB of hard drive with partition that left 85 GB on other partition unlike the system that have to go with it id like your system to boot from IDE from sonnet trio direct and have whole hard drive running from full disk like 100 GB Western Digital 8 MB Cache fast running, and I appreciate your help My computer is a Power PC 8600/250. Upgraded with Sonnet G4 800 MHZ and separate I have a SCSI 18 GB that run fine under Ryan System with no problem at all I like your help as soon possible thank you. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 27, 2003 8:02 AM |
brfransen |
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Ryan, It really seems to me that there is something wrong with the caching right now. While in X just doing a simple reboot will not happen. I see the boot screen (grey apple) but then nothing. The circle indicator never appears and I don't hear any disk activity. Holding down command-V or command-S produces no results either. I tried just deleteing the Extension.mkext while booted into 9 and then rebooted. It booted X just fine then so it does have something to do with caching. Tonight I will try deleting the Extension.mkext in X and reboot and see what happens. I saw another thread where someone was having issues with the caching and you said there might be a script OF could run that would delete the Extensions.mkext on every boot. That sounds like that may be what I need. Thanks, Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 26, 2003 6:47 PM |
OSXGuru |
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It's interesting that the "Reinstall BootX" and "Reinstall Extensions" helps. Do you need to do this when booting from Mac OS 9 only? That is, can you reboot in Mac OS X and have it work without going back to Mac OS 9? The only thing that "Reinstall BootX" and "Reinstall Extensions" ought to change (if done repeatedly) is to delete the Extensions.mkext file. It's possible that the caching mechanism is not working properly in your case--it would be interesting to figure out why. You might try deleting the Extensions.mkext file instead of the "Reinstall" option--to see whether that has the same effect. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 23, 2003 9:58 AM |
brfransen |
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Ok, I have been playing some more with these cards and different combinations and have stumbled on something interesting. I can boot from Xpostfacto with the reinstall BootX and reinstall Extensions selected with the following PCI cards installed in this order: A1-ATTO SCSI B1-Sonnet Tempo ATA133 C1-Blank D2-ATI Radeon E2-NEC 5-port USB2 F2-UniBrain 3-port Firewire With either the FW or USB2 card installed in the C1 the machine will not boot. One thing with this config is that it will not boot X at any point without reinstalling BootX and Extensions from Xpostfacto. Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 21, 2003 4:02 PM |
egonzales21 |
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Britney, Sorry to here this also. I finally gave up on my Tempo Trio since I was still able to return it for full refund. I was thinking of the Tempo 133 but it appears that I will run into same problems if I insist on keeping the ATTO and Radeon cards. Since your cards are single channel SCSI and single monitor and mine are dual SCSI and dual video output it does not look good for me either. On the bright side, I obtained a new firewire card based on a TI chipset. Boy what a difference for me. My external devices work great now with decent speeds and I am finally able to import video from my camcorder without having iMovie freeze up hard. In the long run I probably will pick ATA over SCSI because I want to try iDVD etc and now it appears with the Promise based cards, there appears to be no audio problems and compatability issues with native IDE drives. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 21, 2003 2:59 PM |
marcush |
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That does suck. I wrestled with my ATTO card off and on for about two months before I decided to throw in the towel. All-in-all though, I think IDE was the better choice in the end for me. I sure don't miss the high pitched whine of those SCSI drives. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 21, 2003 2:20 PM |
brfransen |
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Well, I got my stand-alone FW card, one with the TI chipset, but it didn't solve my problem. I still can only have 3 of the 4 cards installed at any one time in order for X to boot. So back to deciding which functionality I want/need most. Compromise SUCKS! Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 11:30 PM |
joevt |
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I guess you're using the Sonnet USB 2.0 drivers for 10.2 (which is not to be confused with the driver for earlier OS X versions) ? |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 10:42 PM |
egonzales21 |
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joevt, Thanks for the comments. Indeed I have noticed both ports being sensed in verbose mode and actually all ports show in ASP. The problem is that none of the devices will work in X only when booted into 9. I also have a clean install of 10.2 on another partition and the USB devices do not work either. This would seem to rule out a software issue. Non the less I will be forced to do some software troubleshooting for the next 24 hours. Britney, Glad to hear the good news. Look for a firewire card using TI, Lucent, or Agere chipset. They are the most compatable with the Oxford 911 bridge. Stay away from VIA and NEC. Meanwhile I guess need to consider a 6 slot PowerMac with simpler type PCI cards like single channel SCSI, single video output, etc. Maybe just a new mirror G4. Nah!. Why would I give up the fun I am having getting old world macs to keep on ticking. Ed |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 10:23 PM |
joevt |
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egonzales21, I have tried the USB and FireWire ports on my Trio and they work fine. I have installed the USB 2.0 drivers but have no USB 2.0 devices to test. Right now, I'm using a Microsoft cordless optical mouse. I use the original ADB keyboard but my Apple USB Pro Keyboard works fine as well. In verbose mode or in the system.log file you should see two lines like this (one for each USB port on the Trio; there will be similar lines for the ports on a keyboard or external hub or other USB card): USBF: ###.### [0x########] USB Generic Hub @ 1 (0x0) There should also be a line like the folowing for each USB device: USBF: ###.### drivername[0x#######]::start usbdevicename @ # (0x########) |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 8:41 PM |
brfransen |
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The OrangeMicro card DID most definately have an affect. When I removed it I was able to boot X with the Radeon, SCSI, and ATA card installed. So is seems that instead of only allowing 2 of 3 cards it was really 3 of 4 cards. Off to find a stand-alone Firewire card. Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 5:57 PM |
marcush |
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egonzales21, The dual channel issue may be what had been affecting my Power Tower Pro when I had the UL2D installed. I also have a Ratoc Firewire/USB2.0 combo card in the 3rd PCI slot. The UL2D was in the 4th slot on the second PCI bus. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 15, 2003 9:00 AM |
brfransen |
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Ed, Your theory about multiple dual channel cards makes good sense in your situation but for me that is not the case. I have the orginal Radeon (not the 7000) and it is a single channel. Granted it does have multiple video outputs (s-video, VGA, DVI) but only one is active at a time. My IMS ix3D also has multiple outputs as well (VGA, old Mac monitor connector). My SCSI card is also only a single channel. So in my system only the Tempo has dual channels. I do have an old OrangeMicro FW/USB card (that has crappy FW bandwidth) but that doesn't seem to affect this problem in anyway but I will try removing it tonight just to make sure. Also, I sent an email to Sonnet Support about this issue to see if they had any other ideas. I have emailed back and forth with Neal. We will see if this gets us any further. Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 14, 2003 9:44 PM |
egonzales21 |
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Britney Join the club. I am finally able to boot into X with ATTO UL2D, Tempo Trio, but with a Rage Orion video card not my usual Radeon 7000. On further troubleshooting it seems that all cards with more than one function and/or channels causes problems. My UL2D is a dual channel card, the Radeon 7000 is dual output, and of course the Trio is dual channel ATA, dual firewire and USB. When I substitute a one channel SCSI, the Trio and 7000 are OK, substitute the Rage Orion (single output) the Trio and UL2D are OK. Apparently left with the decision to have to choose. One choice for me is to find a 9600 and change the Trio to a Tempo and separate cards for USB and Firewire though your experience may point to problems anyway if a get the Tempo. I want to stay with the Promise based ATA cards because they appear better in sound than the Acard counterparts. For me, if the firmware is 3.2.5 the ATA card shows as UltraTek100+. Change the firmware to 3.5.0 it becomes Ultra133. In ASP the slot shows SCSI but if you open Disk Utility, the hard drive and other devices show as ATA. This is what matters. Something else: I have been so busy trying to troubleshoot the cards that I had not checked out the function of firewire and USB. I am sorry to report that the USB ports to not recognize any of my 1.1 devices at this time. When I boot back into 9 all USB comes back to life. For grins I put in an old USB card I had on hand and it works fine in X when the Trio does not. O well. Back to emailing Sonnet Tech again. Good Luck. Will keep everybody posted. Ed |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 14, 2003 7:25 PM |
brfransen |
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Right now I am booted into 10.2.3 with the ATTO SCSI card, Tempo ATA133 card, and an IMS ix3D card. It really seems that I can only have 2 of 3 cards (ATTO SCSI, Tempo ATA133, Orginal Radeon) installed at any one time in order for it to boot X. In ASP the DVR-105 is reported as fully supported. The drive seems to work correctly but I haven't tried burning anything yet. What seems weird to me is that the Tempo card is reported with a "Card Type: scsi" and "Card Name: UltraTek100+". I thought that others had said that the Tempo reported itself as an ATA card? Thanks, Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 11:27 PM |
joevt |
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- The original Radeon is not dual-output like the 7000 is. - Ryan made the short name change in XPostFacto 2.2.5. It probably won't help here. - The splash screen appears before verbose output appears. You won't see any error messages in the system.log file before verbose mode begins but maybe try connecting your computer to another with a serial cable connecting the modem ports, run a program like ZTerm on the second computer (38400 8N1 for Open Firmware output), set the output- device and input-device to modem, enable kprintf, turn off auto-boot, press restart in XPostFacto, ZTerm will show the Open Firmware prompt, type boot in ZTerm, press return, watch for any Open Firmware output, set ZTerm to 57600 when you see garbage appear (this is kprintf output). If you don't see OF output then you can try again, this time set ZTerm to 57600 right after you press return in OF so that you can see all the kprintf output. Your problem might occur before kprintf is first used. I'm not sure how useful the kprintf output would be. Anyway, you might see different results just because the output-device is not set to the Radeon. - I don't know anything about firmware compression but if there were such a thing then it would be uncompressed to normal memory not NVRAM. I don't know why Open Firmware would run out of normal memory except that maybe it will use only a small part of normal memory. Maybe it has something to do with the real-size / virt-size / load-base Open Firmware variables? |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 5:44 PM |
brfransen |
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tebjlc, Yes I have tried my 10.2.3 drive on the internal SCSI bus and it does work, however, it is about half the speed as when it is connected to my ATTO SCSI card. I hope you are right about Ryan working on a way to truncate some of the OF strings. That may very well help my and others situation. Britney |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 4:19 PM |
tebjlc |
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Britney, Have you considered putting the 10.2.3 drive on your internal SCSI bus ? I have a 9500/800 w/Tempo ATA 100 and a DVR-104; I'm running 10.2.3/9.22 from a 9gig drive on the internal bus,and 10.1.5/9.1 from a 30gig ATA drive on the Tempo card. IDVD runs very well on 10.2.3...I'd say it's worth the speed hit ( I tried 10.2 first with a different ADAPTEC SCSI card, and could never get it to boot...) Also ,I think I read that Ryan is working on a feature in XPF 3 that will check NVRAM to see how much space is left for OF ,and then truncate firmware names if necessary while loading to make more space (Ryan,is that anywhere close,or did I dream it?) If that is true,perhaps you could then try the card again after XPF 3 comes out ..anf it might then work...or not.. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 1:54 PM |
tempest |
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Try using XPF and enable verbose mode so you don't get the Apple splash screen. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 11:32 AM |
egonzales21 |
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Britney, No OF expert but maybe, again thinking out loud, the NVRAM is not overloaded initially because of the compression. The code gets loaded fine but when the signal comes to decompress, this is where the problem lies. To go further I have booted into OF on several attempts after changing the boot-device and output-device names of both the ATTO and Radeon 7000 to be shorter. I then add the Trio and will successfully boot into OF. When I type boot, about 3-5 seconds later I get the message default catch: code=FFF00300 which apparently is an OF error code. This seems to suggest that the info initially gets loaded into NVRAM but when OF begins to use it there is no room to fit it all. I have a feeling all these modern cards use compression/decompression schemes to load their firmware. There is however a limit to how many can get away with it. chibi, have you tried connecting a second computer with your main by their serial ports and try to get OF message their. I had to do this to finally get some sense into my problem. I am booting fine from Tempo Trio using firmware 3.2.5 or 3.5.0 but using only a 80MB Seagate. I did format it using Drive Setup from 9.1 and decided to partition it with OSX within 1st 8Gig though this controller may not care about this limit. My OS X was however duplicated using Retrospect from a working X partition I was using on a SCSI drive. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 9:14 AM |
chibi_delenn |
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brfransen, Unfortunately, I don't get to verbose mode...it just stays at the Mac logo screen and freezes. Not even the "show kernel panic text" option in XPF lets me see the kernel panic for myself to troubleshoot. |
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RE: Can't boot X with Sonnet Tempo ATA133 in PTP |
January, 13, 2003 8:58 AM |
brfransen |
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Ok, so it is an OF overload. Meaning that there is not enough memory in OF to boot with a SCSI card, ATA card, and video card. Shouldn't we at least be getting a error message to the effect of OF being out of memory? I think that other have reported that they have received such a message. And since both the ATA & SCSI card will boot without the Radeon doesn't that seem to indicate that the ATTO card does not do the same type of compression in the firmware that Sonnet suggested? Just trying to think this through out loud. Britney |