Does this crap really work |
January, 28, 2003 11:55 PM |
mikef17 |
I’ve been monitoring this board for a few days now and I’m a little frustrated and confused. Is everybody having problems or can this think REALLY WORK. Does this “Guru� know what the hell he is doing or “not�? I don’t want a response from him.....(previous responses from him seem something less than impressive) but rather a response from the guys in the trenches. I don’t own OS X yet but I’m geering up for the purchase (somewone at OW said I might as well go for Jaguair). I’m trying to get my Old world system compatible. I’m staying away from SCSI cause after many years if dicking with it and its sycronisities, screw it with the advent of ATA/133, so there!!!!! I like this 9600 I’ve got going with 9.2 I’m impressed with the Sonnett 700 G4 under 9.1. Very speedy....does everything quite nicely. However I have a craving for this Apple pronounced incredible!!!!!!Bla Bla Unix based OS. I’m too stuborn to go out and buy a New World Mac,(just passed up a reconditioned Emac 700mhz in Kansas City for $700 with the ssssooooo wanted unix OS already installed and ready to be pluged in to the AC. It just seems too easy.....sorry its just not me, plus I like these 19+ Monitors.) plus I’m a glutton for punishment. I’ve been e-baying and I’m putting together a home network of Old Macs and (forgive me one Windoze 2K machine) Here’s my little system. 9600 with (4) 128’s interleaved. 4 gig internal SCSI for wich I’m using for Retrospect Backups. ACard ATA/133 with 60mb 7200 rpm ATA/133 Maxtor drive 5 partitions with Drive Setup ATI 7000 (guess I have to take it out to install X, I don’t get that? put the old card in to boot OSX?) Seems to be some stuff about only being able to use the fiist 3 PCI slotts on a 9600. What’s the scoop. What a waste!! if it’s true. Thanks for listening to my BS Any input would be appreciated, Thanks, Mike |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
February, 03, 2003 1:09 AM |
jeglin |
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Not to rain on the parade, but I think it important to emphasize to new users that these older systems that we can't find the heart to otherwise retire have bottlenecks that keep the OSX experience from achieving perfection. Although of course YMMV, OSX on these machines can be, well, kinda slow. Although it is least cost-effective, IMHO you should not skimp on the hardware upgrade. Get tons of memory, get a new video card, get the fastest upgrade processor you can, get fast SCSI or ATA and a lot of it. Every little bit counts. Me, I've become comfortable with the idea of running a lot in classic. Hell, that's what I was doing before anyway! Some things I stay in X for, but if you take your fast classic and add machine stability, it's really a pretty good compromise. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
February, 03, 2003 12:49 AM |
sneitzel |
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Lonnie [ltking] Just as a follow up, I did look at the drive and it does say it is an Apple 12X SCSI. System Profiler sees it as Matshita CD-ROM CR-8012. Scott |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
February, 01, 2003 4:23 AM |
paul_findley |
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Mikef17, in a forum like this, you should expect mostly problem reports. Most people don't post with successes. But if you have a clue as to what you are doing, most of the time, it is success. And with the open source community going full blast for OS X, you can now enable unsupported printers and previously PC-only printers (with a cheap USB-parallel cord) with CUPS and gimp-print (eventually even old serial printers) and encode mpeg2 and burn SVCD and DVD, all on a legacy mac! Mine is a 7500/G4 800, ATTO U2LD scsi card, 2 LVD scsi disks, usb 2, firewire, etc. etc. I can burn to the external yamaha scsi cdr as long as I make an image, instead of trying to burn from my slow, apple-original 2x CD-rom drive. Vuescan still freezes my external UMAX scsi scanner, but I expect a fix for that soon. Some negatives: My paperport sheet scanner won't work. I capture video in OS 9, because X is a bit too slow to capture in iMovie 2 without incident. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
February, 01, 2003 1:22 AM |
ltking |
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Hi All: As of 17:17 on 02/01/03 (Guam Time) I have OS X.2 installed and booting! The ONLY change I made was to install my friend's Apple CD600i 4x CD-ROM (the original equipment in a PM8500). I installed using Sonnet Tech's installer (because I simply decided to try it first). Thanks all for the input. I'm going to party and then to work on using the OS. Also, Hi Scott; I suspect you are correct in your assumption on your OEM drive. It seemed like that was all mine needed. Cheers, Lonnie [ ltking ] |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 31, 2003 10:16 AM |
sneitzel |
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Lonnie [ ltking ], I'll have to check the drive when I get home but I am 99% sure it is the original Apple drive that came installed in the 9600. The spec sheet I have for the 9600/233 says the stock CDROM drive is a 12X model. I bought the mahine used so without checking I cannot say for sure. I will post back with a positive answer. Scott |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 30, 2003 10:32 PM |
tpmco |
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Mike-- Given your contrition, I'll give you a thank you for your post.--it should be required reading for anyone entering this forum. And remember the big Apple--playing the dual role of savior and devil. Apple really needs to rethink their strategy on support for legacy Macs with OS X--as loyal (read dumb) as Macintosh users are, we're not going to go away when OS IX really won't run on our machines!! Thanks again, Ryan. Mark |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 30, 2003 4:30 PM |
arombley |
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Got a 9600, G4 450 xlr8 card, 1024 RAM, firewire/Usb, Radoen 32 graphic card. 3 scsi harddrive and OS X. My system work with Ryan software very good just need sound to work better. it really does work. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 30, 2003 3:21 PM |
ltking |
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Hi Scott [ sneitzel ] Are you still out there? I am absolutely dying to know about that CD-ROM in your 9600. Any chance of you telling me about that? Cheers, Lonnie [ ltking ] |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 30, 2003 9:52 AM |
mikef17 |
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I'm thinkin we should wait and see how his new version of XPF does before we try to sneek him in for president. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 30, 2003 9:25 AM |
gx77 |
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i'm assuming ryan is canadian, as his old email was xxx@utoronto.edu. canadians can't be president. they can only be governor (i think canadians call it prime minister, but everyone knows it's the 51st state...) of canada |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 5:43 PM |
mikef17 |
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I just want to thank everyone for the great input. I'm really regret my thread heading, whish I could change "crap" to something a little more appropriate. The last thing I want to do is offend Ryan or anyone else for that matter, especially since he has earned a lot of respect from members of this forum. I’m ordering Jaguar today so I can get started. I will continue to monitor this group as obviously you all are of great help. Thanks Again, Mike |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 3:57 PM |
marcush |
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ltking, I used a SCSI Yamaha 8424S CD-R/RW to do my initial install. I replaced it back in October with the Toshiba drive because I wanted DVD playback capability and a faster burner. It found it's way into the Firewire case once I realized iDVD would work with the Pioneer burner attached to the Sonnet ATA card. The Yamaha drive is now in storage. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 3:01 PM |
ltking |
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Hi marcush: Which CD capable drive did you load OS X from during your original install and is/was it mounted internally? Likewise sneitzel: Scott, is/was your Apple CD in your PM9600 the "original?" If so, what were/are the specs on it? Is it a 4x, 8x, "XXx'? Still searching for tidbits that might help me get my PM8500 up an running on OS X.2 Lonnie (ltking) |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 2:45 PM |
Tony.Scaminaci |
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People who aren't having problems usually don't post to this forum. This is true in many support forums. Take Apple's Discussion forums for instance. How many people post there to say how great everything works? These forums are for troubleshooting although those of us that have X running smoothly still read and occasionally post to them. Having said that, yes, XPF does work and it works well. That doesn't mean that you'll get OS X running on your first attempt. It may take many attempts so you'd better have patience. Different hardware configurations pose different problems. Some people get up and running quickly while there are others (me for instance) that take a couple of months to get a stable platform built. If you're willing to do some troubleshooting work and give this a try, we're here to help you. |
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Ryan for President |
January, 29, 2003 2:14 PM |
gabb |
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Ryan gives us a renewed interest in technological breakthroughs. Ryan for president...... |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 2:12 PM |
gabb |
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Ryan for President.....anyone? Gabster |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 2:06 PM |
marcush |
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I have had virtually flawless performance with my Power Tower Pro in the 1-1/2 years I've been running OSX on it. XpostFacto has to be one of the best pieces of software ever written for the Mac! If you've ever met Ryan, as I have, you would have an even greater appreciation of the work he has done. Installation was a snap even with the earliest versions of XpostFacto. The only oddities I ever encountered involved cold booting into OS X, which was resolved by moving my then startup SCSI drive to the external SCSI bus, and memory related system freezes caused by an xlr8 G4/450 SSE card. Both problems were resolved with a little research, which was in itself an interesting learning experience. I don't post about problems because I don't have any. Remember, in forums like this you'll pretty much only see the problems and not the successes. I don't know what everyone else is using their machines for but I do DV editing with Final Cut Pro, and DVD authoring with DVD Studio Pro and iDVD on mine, as well as Photoshop touch ups and scanning. OSX games also play well, such as Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Medal of Honor, Aliens vs Predator, ST Voyager: Elite Force, and Alice. I'm also able to do a lot of Sysadmin work from my daytime job at home if the need arises and I can do almost all of my training assignments from tech classes on this machine too. Thanks to Ryan I've been able to wait a lot longer than I thought for a new Mac. I may buy sometime next year if the right machine becomes available but if not then I'll wait some more. Here's my setup: Power Tower Pro; Sonnet G4/800, 1GB RAM, Sonnet Tempo ATA/100 (80 GB WD SE 7200rpm w/20GB 10.2.3, 1.5GB 9.2.2,1.5GB 9.1,1.5GB classic, 50GB data partions; 120GB IBM 120GXP 7200rpm single partition for DV storage; Pioneer DVR-104 DVD-R/RW CD-R/RW), Macsense 10/100 ethernet, Ratoc Firewire/USB2.0 combo, ATI Radeon Mac Edition 32MB; 60GB IBM 120GXP 7200rpm in OWC Firewire case, Toshiba SD-R1202 DVD/CD-R CD-RW 40x16x10 +12x DVD in OWC Firewire case; Umax S-6E SCSI scanner (used with Viewscan). |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 12:55 PM |
lei1 |
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Hey Mike My 9600 has no problem with the lower slots in OSX and Ryan does not produce "crap". His software is awesome & free. Hardware usually causes the problem. Good luck. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 10:20 AM |
sneitzel |
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Yes this crap does realy work. Buy your copy of X (and any CPU upgrade you see fit) and prove it to yourself. You'll be happy you did. As with any operation that involves putting a square peg in a round hole there are difficulties from time to time which is what this forum serves. And I must say from my experience that the problems are what I learn from the most. How better to learn what you machine/OS can and cannot do then by forcing it to do something it was never intended to do. Just do your homework first. (which it sounds like you already have for the most part). Identify the pitfalls you may encounter (like the ATI card interfering with the install under 10.1) and use those of us who have done it as a resource to solve them. My set up (similar to yours...) PM9600/XLR8 G4 450 6 slot edition; 712MB RAM; Sonnet ATA100 (slot 1) with WD 60G 7200 RPM dirve (3 partitions, 8G for OSX, 8G for 9.2.2, rest for Data); Sonnet Firewire/USB combo card (slot 2); ATI Radeon (Slot 5, primary monitor); Stock Apple card (slot 6, 2nd monitor); SCSI Zip srive; Stock Apple CD-ROM; Yamaha 8824SZ CDRW; Samsung 332 CDRW/DVD Combo drive (IDE) and some other stuff I'm sure I've forgotten. Good luck and let us know what you think. Scott |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 6:57 AM |
fixitjc |
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It is true that this forum deals with lots of problems, but there are many of out here that have had almost no problems switching to OSX, and the forum would be very boring if all you had was success stories. I have an 8500 with a G3 500, 384 meg RAM and 3-9gig SCSI drives (so I avoid the substantial ata related glitches) I have been extremely pleased with the adventure of making my OldWorld machine jump through new hoops. Even tho I haven't had many extreme problems, I read the postings every day and glean much valuable information so that if I do run into a problem on my machine or on one of my client's machines I can be prepared. Enjoy the adventure |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 5:08 AM |
john.england |
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PS: I use a laserprinter, HP Laserjet 4MV, through an ethernet connection with no problems for printing. Thank god for routers! |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 5:06 AM |
john.england |
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Mike, yes it DOES work and has been working for me almost since day one. Specs: an 8600 (now, at first it was a 7600) with a Sonnet G4/800 mhz processor, a gigabyte of RAM, 2-36 gigabyte Fujitsu 15K SCSI drives linked up to an Adaptec 29160N scsi card, an ATI Radeon 7000 graphics card, a Firewire card to link my external Maxtor 80 gigabyte hard drive. Only thing I haven't gotten working in OS X is my old SCSI scanner. Everything else? Like a dream. As long as SCSI is properly terminated and uses the proper cables, it seems to be fine. Everything has the latest patches/firmware updates of course. Trust us, as long as you have a relatively clean system without too many freaky add ons, you really shouldn't have a problem. With my system, I get specs that test better than some newer machines. Good Luck! |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 4:34 AM |
matti.haveri |
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XPostFacto works OK on my 8600/XLR8 G4 450. I'd switch entirely to X from 9.1 but printing to my 10-year-old LocalTalk DeskWriter or burning a CD via my external SCSI burner requires an occasional boot to 9.1. I must also cold-boot into 9.1 because the IDE drive and XLR8 CPU don't cold boot into X (I can cold boot X via internal SCSI but I prefer the >2x IDE speed). Also the 8600's analog video doesn't work in X so I can no longer watch TV from the VCR tuner. The SCSI burner used to work in X but now for some obscure reason it only works in 9.1. I guess an IDE/USB/FW interface would be OK for CDRW and an USB/Ethernet printer would also work. At work we have a 604e CPU 8600/200 and it certainly can print via EtherTalk to our LaserJets when booted into 10.1.5. The FW card works OK in X as does iMovie although 1) officially iMovie shouldn't work in the 8600 and 2) officially X shouldn't work in the 8600. So overall I'm very pleased with XPostFacto because I can still postpone buying a new Mac a few years (I bet Apple doesn't like this). I have used and learned X and UNIX for about a year in my 8600 and I really appreciate that I could use X on this old Mac which I bought when it was still among the Macs which were planned to be fully X- compatible by Apple. |
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RE: Does this crap really work |
January, 29, 2003 4:32 AM |
krjz |
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YES!!! I was amazed at how easily I got my 8600/250 running in OS10.1.3 and it also took under its wing my previous 9.1 system on the other HD on the machine as the "Classic". Looking forward to when I can use nowt but OS10, but unfortunately have nice A3 printer and scanner that want a good old fashioned mac serial port and SCSI 1 respectively. |